The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
jsunseri, Andrew_the_Ascetic, Giovanni1, SeekingTruth, friendly_pilgrim
5,863 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 61 guests, and 14 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,189
Posts415,109
Members5,862
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 368
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 368
http://www.anewimmaculata.org/

It looks as if the SSPX is building a new cathedral of some sorts in their stronghold of St Marys, Kansas. It seems as if they are trying to make some sort of "statement" to the surrounding community?


Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
My browsers is being finicky, but without going to the site I'm going to say I'm pretty sure it's not a cathedral; I think the Society only has "chapels."

Alexis

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 1
It may not be an episcopal seat, but it is far more than a mere "chapel". The site itself calls the project a "great church", and a look at the plans reveals an edifice larger than most diocesan cathedrals in this country.

And, sad to say, much nicer than most of them, too.

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 1
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 1
The Church looks breath taking:
[Linked Image]

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 368
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 368
Why does the SSPX always associate itself with all things French? The Church is obviously in the French, Gothic design and I'm sure that they'll import plenty of French practices.

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
They've been working on that since the mid-80s when I was still teaching there. It's certainly not a new idea.

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,208
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,208
If our brothers and sisters in the SSPX are trying to tell ME anything, it's that they have de facto developed into just another Christian denomination, separated from the Holy See.The only kind of dialogue I think we can have with them, under the circumstances, is ecumenical dialogue, such as the Holy See has with other non-Catholic ecclesial communities.

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
sielos ilgesys,

The Church authorities themselves seem rather schizophrenic when trying to determine whether the SSPX is inside or outside the Church. At times they consider it "an internal matter of the Church," and that the SSPX is in an "irregular situation," and other times one hears talk about the Society being separate from the Church entirely.

I think the general consensus, however, is trending in the direction of, "they're in the Church, though irregularly so."

Alexis

Last edited by Logos - Alexis; 07/10/09 03:39 PM.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
And Robert,

To answer your question re: SSPX and their affinities for French stuff, I'd suggest searching Fr. Zuhlsdorf's archives over at his (annoying) site. He often touches on how the traditional movement has a very particular political dimension in France.

Also, a huge percentage of the SSPX and the Society's faithful are from France, so naturally there'd be a heavy French influence. Archbishop Lefebvre was French.

Alexis

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 209
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by StuartK
And, sad to say, much nicer than most of them, too.

Amen.

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Quote
The only kind of dialogue I think we can have with them, under the circumstances, is ecumenical dialogue, such as the Holy See has with other non-Catholic ecclesial communities.


The SSPX is being handled by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. If it were only a liturgical issue, and not doctrinal/dogmatic in nature, a liturgical commission or congregation would be taking care of business. That is simply not the case. As the Holy Father himself stated in Ecclesiae unitatem, there are doctrinal issues separating Rome and the SSPX. Doctrinal, and not simply liturgical. It is clear that no bishop or priest of the SSPX yet enjoys valid faculties anywhere in the Catholic Church.
Quote
However it is clear that the doctrinal questions remain, and until they are clarified the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.

"Cannot legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church" is far more onerous in its extent to clergy other than the four bishops than Ecclesia Dei, which only dealt specifically with the four bishops in the ipso facto excommunication. The current document extends to all clergy in the SSPX, "its ministers".



Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 368
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 368
So the SSPX is considered in schism officially from the Roman Church? Why then do they, and other traditionalist as well, claim that the Society has some kind of unwritten permission to carry out their ministry? Are these calims merely smoke and mirror?


Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 368
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 368
Originally Posted by Logos - Alexis
And Robert,

To answer your question re: SSPX and their affinities for French stuff, I'd suggest searching Fr. Zuhlsdorf's archives over at his (annoying) site. He often touches on how the traditional movement has a very particular political dimension in France.

Also, a huge percentage of the SSPX and the Society's faithful are from France, so naturally there'd be a heavy French influence. Archbishop Lefebvre was French.

Alexis

I also notice that most traditional Catholics (at least in the USA) tend to be on the Anglophile side. There seems to be this identification with the post Refoirmation RC faithful of England, especially the martyrs. This seems to feed in the whole persecution complex, be it real or imagined, that many trads hold about themselves.

I'm not sure thaat the Vatican will ever be able to work out a reconciliation with the SSPX. Every time Rome shows some small sign of goodwill towards them, the Society twist it around to make it appear that te Vatican has given them some official validation. They seem to delight in this type of behavior (I guess when one beleives they are on a "mission from God", they will do anything they feel necessary to stay a float?


Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,678
Diak rightly points out that Rome considers there to be doctrinal issues needing to be resolved vis-a-vis the SSPX. But the SSPX is very clear that they believe this to be the case, too. Every chance they get they talk about the "new religion," as practiced in Rome today.

So it's something that both sides readily acknowledge.

Alexis

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 1
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 1
Quote
I'm not sure thaat the Vatican will ever be able to work out a reconciliation with the SSPX. Every time Rome shows some small sign of goodwill towards them, the Society twist it around to make it appear that te Vatican has given them some official validation.

I assume you think the Vatican is completely innocent in this matter as well. Although I don't agree with the SSPX tactics at times they make some valid points. Remember us in the East are still working things out with the Vatican (in some cases for over 500 years).

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2022 (Forum 1998-2022). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5