www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Original Sin

I am trying to understand and learn the difference if any between the Eastern Orthodox view of "original (ancestrial)sin " and the Byzantine Catholic view.
According to the Orthodox study Bible Original Sin does not carry guilt , for a person is guilty only of his or her own sins, not of those of Adam. Therefore the Orthodox church does not brlieve that a baby who dies unbaptized is condemed to Hell.
Is this view shared by Byzantine Catholics (in communion with Rome)? Or is this Strictly an Eastern Orthodox view?

Christ is in our midst!!

If you do a search, there are a few threads that discuss this in depth.

BOB

I did, but none that point to the last statemnet I mentioned. The threads I found all turn into discussions on the Immaculate Conception of Mary"

Christ is in our midst!!

The search engine is not the greatest in this version of the software. It only returns the first 200 reponses and this usually picks up only responses in the past year. I'd suggest you start to go back in time and pick some out as you come on them. It's not the greatest way to do it, but there are some great threads in the past seven years I've been on the forum that treat this topic and its relationship to both the Orthodox Church and the Easter Catholic Churches.

BOB

I am particuluary trying to find out if the Catholic church (both Latin and Eastern Rites) find the Orthodox view and interpretation to be considered heresy. I have always understood that both the "Catholic" church and the "Orthodox" church practiced seperate interpretations before the schism and that "original sin" was not part of the stumbling block to reunification. But I can't seem to find any credibal sources to back this up. (books, links, cannons, catechisms etc..)Does anyone know of any? Does the Catholic church find the Orthodox to be teaching heresy?
Does the Orthodox church find the Catholic church to be teaching heresy? Or are both ok with each others interpretation? These are the questions I am trying to understand get gather further knowledge on.

That's an interesting question that is often raised in internet discussions. You might find of interest my reflections on original sin and the East/West debate [pontifications.wordpress.com].

Why? The era of polemics is over.

BOB

[quote=theophan][quote=SpiritualJourney]I am particuluary trying to find out if the Catholic church (both Latin and Eastern Rites) [u][b]find the Orthodox view and interpretation to be considered heresy[/b][/u]. [/quote]

Why? The era of polemics is over. [/quote]

Right. And I guess now we're in the era of "I'm OK, you're OK."

[quote] [/quote] Why? The era of polemics is over.

BOB [quote] [/quote]


I have a good friend who is a Roman Catholic apologist who has just told me that what Orthodox teach as "original sin" is heretical because we don't believe in the "inhereted guilt or stain" type or Augistinian theology.
I was never told this by anyone. And I also thought that eastern catholics shared Orthodoxys view on Original sin.

And who is your Catholic apologist friend? What are his credentials? What are his authorities?

Christ is in our midst!!

No, but in this age we are seeking reconciliation. And that means that we approach the other as someone to whom the Holy Spirit has delivered a different way of approaching the Mystery that is way beyond any one way of expressing it theologically. If you want any proff of this, you can see the grace that the Holy Spirit has poured out on the Orthodox Church and the many miracles wrought by the saints who have lived and grown in her.

I'd say that you have no "friend" if that one is enmeshed in the polemics of the past. And I'd say that he's against many of his own brethren because our Eastern brothers and sisters share the same theology that the Orthodox Church does when it comes to this area. St. Augustine has no corner on the theology of the Fall or of the consequences of it.

Vatican II has a lot to say about our relationship with the Orthodox and the Popes of the past 40+ years have, too. So if your "friend" is somehow missing what has been said and taught, I'd say either he isn't a good apologist or he's somehow picked up his training from a time that is long over. There are many people who have picked up the idea that the Catholic Church somehow went astray after the death of Pope Pius XII and who are trying to resurrect the time and mind set of the era that ended with the election of Pope John XXIII.

I think I'd start with the Catechism of the Catholic Church if I were you and see what that tome says about this area.

In Christ,

BOB

Christ is in our midst!!

Again, no, but we are in an era when we are studying the areas of our divergence in the area of understanding the Mystery of God coming into His creation as one of us in all things but sin. And as our recent Supreme Pontiffs have taught, we have much to learn from our Eastern brethren so that the Church can again experience the fullness of what we shared in the first millenium.

May I suggest you obtain and read Orthodox sources with an open mind--open to actually learning and not trying to pick apart what you find by using a Latin framework.

In Christ,

BOB

After years of discussing Original Sin and Ancestral Sin on CAF I have come to the conclusion that my embattled old brain will never understand the Roman Catholic teaching.

But I'll give it one last try and read your blog article.

Threads tend to do that because the Orthodox believe that Mary the Mother of God and the Dalai Lama and you and me were all conceived and born in the same spiritual condition.

This contrast is usually seen as one way of bringing into relief the difference between Catholic Original Sin and Orthodox Ancestral Sin.

"I'd say that you have no "friend" if that one is enmeshed in the polemics of the past. And I'd say that he's against many of his own brethren because our Eastern brothers and sisters share the same theology that the Orthodox Church does when it comes to this area. St. Augustine has no corner on the theology of the Fall or of the consequences of it.

Vatican II has a lot to say about our relationship with the Orthodox and the Popes of the past 40+ years have, too. So if your "friend" is somehow missing what has been said and taught"

ok,so help me out, is there some "authoritative" document that I can present to my RC "apologist" friend that shows that The Eastern Catholic churches share the same view and position on Original sin as do the Orthodox? Or does none exist?