www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Is this disturbing?

Is it just me or do any of you find this disturbing? This really bothers me.

Converted Viking


http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE59S3IV20091029



http://www.walmart.com/search/searc...;ref=+125874.425084&tab_value=27_All

funny, they want to be your everything store
Wally World - Wal-Mart Stores Inc is now catering to its shoppers' needs from cradle to grave.

They have the best distribution network in the world, I don't see why not. All the publicity they're getting can't hurt.

Terry

People can now get a decent casket without spending more money than they need. For people with little money, it's a good thing.

No pine boxes?

Those are good looking caskets.

I find it disturbing. Mixing the mystery of death with ordinary everyday things.

To be honest, When I saw it I immediately thought about a crematory in Sweden, which is connected to the city heating system.

You mean that human bodies are used to provide some heat to the city? Sounds like an attempt at green technology.

Terry

Sounds like the Nazis are back, but this time they don't wear conspicuous uniforms.

That's what I told my kids. I'm a veteran, get the pine box

I see nothing wrong with it. Funeral directors sell caskets; a cash transaction is a cash transaction whether your giving your money to a guy in a dark suit or a cheesey blue smock. Being able to price online might help keep ppl from being manipulated into spending more then they can really afford. It's high time we become more comfortable about discussing death.

Myself, I'd like to buried Isreali style-no casket no vault,no imbalming,just wrap me in a prayer shawl. I'll return to the earth faster.

If I could I'd like to buried in a pet cemetary with my dogs, but that's probably not legal. Maybe I can have them creamated and ask that ashes be buried with me.

TERRY:

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!

Before I'm condemned for personal interest . . .

I'd have to ask where they're made. There has been a big influx of Chinese-made caskets in the past few years. I've ordered some for resale and returned all of them for one reason or another, usually based on fit and finish.

The practical problem becomes delivery in a reasonable time at the time of need. I've had the situation where a casket can't be delivered on weekends or holidays and delays occur. I have one incident where a casket was purchased in Florida and the seller couldn't get it to Pennsylvania at all.

I've written a Preneed pamphlet based on a unit I used to teach some years ago about being a smart consumer. There are lots of questions that need to be asked and all the details need to be in writing so that one's survivors know the answers to them. In PA, my Board's Rules and Regs forbid me to be a party to a third-party purchase, mostly for liability. I can and will accept anythig delivered to me, but cannot be involved in getting it from where it is to my door.

Every consumer should get the best deal he can get wherver he can get it, IMHO. As far as markups on merchandise go, I've done consulting work for various funeral homes and groups for many years and I've told my colleagues that we're in the business of service. Merchandise is a courtesy sinc eht FTC Feuneral Rule went into effect. Many people think that they've paid for the entire funeral when they purchase a casket--not so. The ancient "unit price" used to be that way, but it jsut isn't so since May 1, 1984.

BOB

I have one that I show (knotty pine), but when people see it they always reject it. And it's a stock item from one of my suppliers; not something we have made up to look ugly.

BOB

Call me. There are ways to do this that are legal and can be done with minimal merchandise. The only thing that we may run into in my state is if you die of a disease that the law mandates embalming for. But I've seen ads for woven baskets to hold human beings for "green burials."

BOB

TERRY:

Cremation occurs at temps above 1800 degrees F. Some of that heat goes up the stack. Why not harness it to go out to heat the living? When I was at university, the bulk of hte campus was heated from a central place with pipes going to the various buldings. So why waste?

BOB

I never realized that some caskets are imported. I thought every casket bought in America was American made.

Etnick:

Actually they can be rather good knock-offs of American caskets. It's in the finish--some finishes have come that are not smooth: something like your car having a "sandy feel" finish rather than smooth. Or the cover not quite fitting tightly on a casket is supposed to be a gasket-sealed unit. Now I don't sell anything based on any promise of what a maker might warrant--the FTC Rule forbids that--but people ought to get what they pay for and what they want. It's up to me to know my merchandise and provide the best I can find at every price bracket to those who trust me. I have a personal rule: I won't sell anything to you I wouldn't use for my own mother, regardless of the price bracket--no exceptions.

I make it my business to know the goods, to know my suppliers, and to be tough when it comes to shortcuts I see. They don't groan, "Oh man, here he comes," for nothing.

BOB

VA refused to provide even a cardboard box for a friend of mine who died in January, an honorably discharged wartime veteran. (i've seen his dd-214.)

"Earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust"....decomposition is slow oxidation, cremation is rapid oxidation. The end result is the same, just takes many more decades to be reached.

While doing some genealogical research I came across a report of the exhumation of the old Shoops' Church cemetery near Harrisburg, Pennsylania, during the construction of the "Eisenhower Interchange".

The report stated that in most of the 19th century graves all that was found was about a 1/8 to 1/4 layer of gray powder--basically the same "stuff" as cremains.

May I suggest Jessica Mitford's excellent book The American Way of Death.

When the time comes, please provide my mortal remains with an inexpensive wooden coffin.

Fr. Serge

From how he put it, I was confused by the setup there. I can understand that.

I do wonder now about the quality of the caskets. If my family ever asks, I won't be too picky.

Terry

aramis:

The VA doesn't provide any casket for anyone. That's not among VA benefits for vets with an honorable DD-214. VA benefits were severely restricted under the Reagan budget cuts in 1981--in fact, they kicked in on the day my father died; another honorably discharged vet.

Terry:

As far as quality goes, it's all about what a family decides. The problem for me gets down to liability exposure if there is a disinterment and the family believes they did not receive what they thought they did. It isn't all that simple anymore with our litigious society. I've supervised several such moves and things can get really nasty in one hurry.

BOB

Father Serge:

Father bless!!

They are certainly available. What most people don't understand is that this particular piece of merchandise is < to about 19% of what a traditonal funeral costs.

BOB

If you like parody, then "The Loved One" by Evelyn Waugh is the book for you.

What disturbs me is the notion held by many people that lavish expenditures on funeral/"death care" merchandise is a suitable response to a death. Lotsa flowers; a spiffy air-tight, water-proof, soil-proof casket with a gasket. Forget Masses for the soul of the deceased. Forget about memorial donations to pro-life causes, struggling monasteries and poor missionaries.

Re. alternative sources for coffins, visit:
stmarksworkshop.com
abbeycaskets.com
trappistcaskets.com

I like our Funeral Director's method

He stocks one variety of coffin - no others - it's nice, plain, unfussy and can be used for either interment or Cremation

When it comes to funeralizing people, the Orthodox Jews have us gentiles put to shame.
Their method is quick, no viewing, earth burial in a wooden coffin deliberately designed for rapid decomposition, and NO FLOWERS. From my Eastern Christian perspective, ttheir funerals are a bit bleak but to the point.

Anyone care to start a discussion about veneration of saints' relics and incorruption of the bodies of saints?

"Forget about memorial donations to pro-life causes, struggling monasteries and poor missionaries."

Those are good ideas.

Terry

I've been in funeral service for 43+ years. I've seen the full panorama of emotions and reactions and beliefs and purchases made.

I've been asked what I would do for myself and it shocks some of my colleagues. I have selected a very plain wodden casket with a flat-topped lid. I have a large icon of the Crucifixion I made with a print on a panel of wood I obtained from my grandfather's estate (he was a cabinetmaker). I want it screwed onto the flat lid. I want to be buried with the casket touching the ground and the caveproff container required by our cemetery turned upside down--so I comply with their requirement that graves do not settle--but that there will be no lid to keep anything out. (They don't allow a canvas sack under the concrete container so that's out.)

Actually if I could be buried like some of the monks--just put me in the grave and fill over me, I'd do it but the cemetery rules get in the way.

I'm not that important that I should have some thought of preservation. If the Good Lord should see fit to make sure I'm incorruptible, so be it. If not, His Will be done.

BOB

Father Edward Doherty - Memory Eternal - was buried in a very plain box (even the handles were made of rope) in the parish cemetery adjacent to Madonna House in Combermere. He had not wanted one of those revolting plush "caskets", and his wife also vetoed the idea. When she died several years later, she was buried in the same way.

Fr. Serge

The same Walmart that puts RFID chips into their products. I would rather go to a monastery that makes caskets.

Ray

I find American style caskets somewhat revolting as well. Remember the beautiful pine box the Pope was buried in? That is the customary casket in Greece...ofcourse, if one wants to 'upgrade' a bit, it can be a highly polished wood, but the simple style is uniform.

Orthodox Wood Coffins:

http://www.desertlighthouse.net/caskets.html

http://www.kizhiwoodworks.com/premium.html

http://www.stmarksworkshop.com/id2.html

Orthodox Burial Shrouds:

http://www.monasteryproducts.org/product_info.php?products_id=1301

http://www.istok.net/church-product/burial-shroud.html

I wonder how long it will be before nearly every casket used in the US is made in China. They've just gotten into the market http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/manufacturing/2005-07-12-caskets-usat_x.htm so I expect we'll be seeing their share of the market rise dramatically. Kind of appropriate since we are letting them bury us every where else.

Don't worry. We heard all this back in the eighties, when Japan was supposed to bury us. Now it's China. But China has so many internal contradictions and intractable problems that there is a more than even chance the country will implode before it surpasses the United States. Most serious is the looming demographic crisis, as two generations of the mandatory one-child policy come home to roost. Not only will China's population begin to contract even faster than Japan's but it will begin aging even faster than Japan's. As Mark Steyn said, "They will get old before they get rich".

China is currently having some trouble with the peasants who are abandoning the fields and seeking work in the cities, they can be set back with another distributive shock.

Actually, the problem has reversed itself with the recession: peasant workers who moved to the cities for industrial jobs are fleeing back to the countryside in such large numbers that the system cannot absorb them all.

Lawrence:

How do you figure? When people buy a casket, no matter what their ability to afford, I've never had anyone ask to go to the "scratch and dent room" like people often do when buying household appliances. People expect to get the best that can be had in their budget bracket. When merchandise has obviously faulty finishes or construction, it won't move and the people who do it right have no worry about competition.

BOB

I don't see anything odd at all about Walmart selling caskets. Americans too often have such a sanitized view of death. Look at the hymns from the Byzantine Funeral (Parastas / Panachida) and how direct they are. Seeing caskets at Walmart would not be out of line. [But I will add the stipulation that the caskets should be tastefully displayed and that Walmart never uses whatever their equivalent of K-Mart's "Blue Light Special" to push them as a loss leader!]