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Originally posted by Joseph 2:
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Originally posted by Ung-Certez:
[b] Jerry Jumba's music? Since when has the Archeparchy been using Jerry Jumba's music? He has no connection to the Cantor's Institute nor the "new music". The work of Prof. Jumba has never been officially recognized and has only been used by individual cantor's who like his Prostopinije musical arrangements.

Ung-Certez
I have a whole collection of Professor Jumba�s music. If you compare Jumba�s music and the new music from the Metropolitan Cantors Institute you�ll see that Thompson uses Jumba as a model. The only big differences are for the new texts. [/b]
Actually several sources are used for the model, particularly Bokshai, Papp and other sources. Jerry is using the same sources as well as his experience from travelling to various countries.

Steve

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You obviously have not been to the cathedral in Munhall lately. Or to a parish in Parma in the last 20 years. At the cathedral the words have all changed. The music has all changed. No one can sing it. My cousin who belongs there started going to St. Elias. She says that they�ve lost a lot of people since the archbishop started making all these changes. No one can sing Jerry Jumba�s music. A little rework by Thompson is not going to help it.
You are correct about this: I have not been in Parma parish in ~25 years, and have not been to
Munhall.

I think, however, that it is a safe bet that this is not true:
"At the cathedral the words have all changed."
If you would like to make comments that might, conceivably have some productive effect, then you should try to stick to actual facts and cogent criticisms, and avoid symptomatic expressions of annoyance.

Ditto:
"The music has all changed. No one can sing it."
I was happy to get a link to this site so that I could get some of the music that has been discussed before on this forum. I tend to be very liberal in criticism (ask Zenovia). And I was expecting to find a great deal to criticize. Instead I was thrilled to see excellent renderings of texts onto our chant tones. The natural singability of the lines is excellent, attention to our actual tone motifs is excellent, restraint in the introduction of innovations is perfect. This work was done very diligently and skillfully. I don't give praise lightly, but this work is highly laudable. What a relief!

I am not just fawning. There are some things I would like to see revisited. Most notably the Sunday Tone 8 tropar where the "song" of this tone is regretably lost. The phrasing of the introductory motif of Tone 3 was also a surprise, but I could get used to it. There was a least one troublesome key signature (staying with 2 sharps after Dmajor tone 6 variant, instead of going back to e-minor for the samohlasen in the paraclesis). And perhaps a half-dozen choices onb slurred syllables that I might have done differently. But that is all.

And overall what I see and hear is OUR tones - what you would hear in Presov or Budapest, or... - with skillful text overlay. And compared to many adaptations of the past, that fought the music rather than dovetailed with it, this work gives me enormous pleasure.

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Keep in mind that the wording and translation are determined by the Intereparchial Liturgy Comission (IELC) and the musical settings are finalized by the Intereparchial Music Commission (IEMC).

I have seen how the process works, having had a(very) small amount of input myself. The music settings must be approved by the IEMC, which has changed some of the initial new settings to more simple settings that resemble what we have been singing for the last 40 years (even if some of those older arrangements have been awkward to sing).

There seems to be confusion about who has been doing what in the liturgical music realm. The misconception tha Thompson is reworking Jumba is incorrect to my knowledge. The music that is coming out of the IEMC that Thompson, and others, have been setting is far more accurate to the original music that the Slavonic was sung in!

How quickly a generation has forgotten what used to be.

Many of the changes from Slavonic to English translations and musical settings was started in the late 40's. The process is not something that somebody dreamed up overnight.

I have been to the cathedral in Munhall quite recently (Feb 6th, 2005 to be exact). The music is singable, the people just don't want changes to what they grew up with.

I am very happy to see the music being made available via the website for those who have not previously had a chance to see and hear the music.

Many thanks to Jeff Miersejewski for his work in setting up the webpage!!!!

Steve Petach

PS personally, I like the new arrangements! They really are just the original melody set to the current translation.

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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:

And all other Orthodox translations use that as well "Boholubivoho" or "Bogolubivago."

Alex
Dear-in-Christ Alex,

I have not seen any printed Slavonic texts other than those of the Ruthenians that use bohol'ubivyj. To know of such would be very useful to me. I am also interested in cataloged manuscripts. I'll appreciate any information you can offer on this.

Tony

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Glory to Jesus Christ!

First of all, this entire sub-topic on this thread is "off-topic."

Second of all, the translation that Ukrainian Orthodox from South Bound Brook were using in the late 70s and 80s (can't affirm its continued use) uses the word "boholjubiviy"--but it is used in connection with the country Ukraine, not with any hierarch. <G>

Prof. J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA

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Originally posted by Professor J. Michael Thompson:
Glory to Jesus Christ!

First of all, this entire sub-topic on this thread is "off-topic."

Second of all, the translation that Ukrainian Orthodox from South Bound Brook were using in the late 70s and 80s (can't affirm its continued use) uses the word "boholjubiviy"--but it is used in connection with the country Ukraine, not with any hierarch. <G>

Prof. J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA
Glory forever!

Thank you Professor. That is interesting, I appreciate that factoid.

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Now you guys got to get the cantor institute site linked up to the archeparchy website (still says "under construction" ... but a lot of that site does. Does anyone work on the archeparchy site besides adding tidbits here and there?

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Christ is risen !!!!
Looks like the Cantor Institute will have quite a selection of services available once the links are operational. I can hardly wait. Now I won't have to pester Father Robert to copy a service booklet when I want to add to my liturgical library. Well done!!!!!!!! Paul

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