www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News CHURCH TO HELP GREEK PRIESTS WED

Church to help Greek priests wed

From BBC News:

The Greek Orthodox Church has begun a campaign to help young men who want to become priests find a spouse willing to accept their austere lifestyle.

Modern Greek women are said to be increasingly unready to marry men whose vocation calls for long beards and black robes to be worn at all times.

The Church says it wants to prepare women for marrying into the priesthood.

Greek Orthodox clergy are allowed to be married, as long as the wedding takes place before they are ordained.

Because of this rule, they are not allowed to remarry if the first match ends in divorce.

A meeting of Church leaders this week pledged to establish a committee that would look into "pastoral methods to obtain and prepare priests' wives", French news agency AFP reports.

The scheme may consider educating women about marriage to a priest so as to reduce the risk of later misunderstandings.

A Greek Orthodox clergyman, who did not wish to be named, told the BBC News website he was confident the 2,000-year old Church would overcome its latest difficulty.

Alice - are you sure this wasn't from the Onion Dome :p

I seem to remember an article there about a dating agency or some such thing.

Anhelyna

thanks for making me laugh today

Dear Alice,

The reason the Greek Church has such a problem, is because the cradle Orthodox are not devout. Since there is some sort of religious 'failing' in the upbringing of our young people, these potential priests should find wives among the converts....Of course in Greece, I doubt that they'll find any.

Also, maybe celibacy should not be discouraged, especially in the Greek Orthodox Church in this country. But of course, (being my usual suspicious self), I feel that there is some hidden agenda...like if there are no single priests, then the Church would have to have married bishops. Kind of like wanting to have your cake and eating it too. :rolleyes:

...And this is not from the Oniondome. :p

Zenovia

Dear Ladies,

Is there or is the shortage of priestly vocations in the Eastern Churches as serious as the shortage of priests in the Roman Church?

Today's secular world has such a strong pull on our youth.

I work with a lot of younger adults (20-25) and the majority of them practice little or no religion at all. It is frightening. I heard one co-worker say that "God is santa Claus for adults. If you're good you go to heaven, if you're bad you get ashes." Scary.

Bill

In regard to Alice's original post, I see no problem with the church trying to recruit more married priests in this fashion. Especially if they are happily married priests.

If the intent is to get to the point of married bishops as Zenovia implied, I don't know where I'd fall on that topic. You know the Latin Church still has a long way to go before we'll see any cradle Catholic men as married priests, if ever.

Now if any of you ladies were considering the priesthood for yourselves, I would have to say "Is sacrilege!".

Bill

I think we've stumbled upon a whole new line of questioning at eHarmony.com!

Do you like long beards? YES - NO
Do you like men who wear black 365 days out of the year? YES - NO - ONLY IF IT'S JOHNNY CASH
Are you allergic to fish? YES - NO
etc etc...

I seem to remember Father Seraphim Rose's group in California having an all girls school for young ladies who would like to marry future priests. I'm not sure if that is something that has existed anywhere else, but I found it a little odd, while at the same time a novel approach to an interesting question: What type of formation/preparation should a future Matushka (sp?) receive? And what does it take to be the wife of a priest? I know that there are some married priests that inhabit this forum. Any comments?

Peace -

Gordo

We had a hilarious thread about this in the recent past...perhaps Neil could dig it up for us with his talents in navigating through the "virtual world".

It may sound funny, but this is becoming a very big problem in the Greek churches East and West. I don't know about other Orthodox jurisdictions. I welcome comments to find out from other Orthodox here.

Actually, the Church of Greece has recently allowed priests to have short beards BECAUSE no girls wanted them looking the old way! SERIOUSLY! :p

In Christ,
Alice

Ah man, I love those beards they're sooo cool. In the Latin Church only the Friars ever wear their beads like that. Shame on you girls

On a more serious note. The bottom line is that we are living in an age where faith doesnt seem to incur any material gain so nobody's willing to put out. Nobody has depth enough of belief to want to be the wife of a man of God because he is a man of God. I hear amongst the 'Bible Protestants' some little girls grow up dreaming of being 'Pastor's wives' simply because they're Pastors.

The domestic Church has evidently become infected with materialism and likewise Catechisis must be going wrong somewhere too. The shortage of priests will only be ended when the shortage of love for God is ended. When people love God truly and deeply they're willing to give up everything for Him, as the lives of the saints well illustrate. Our problems show that we, as a Church, simply dont love God. We are like seed scattered on the ground that springs up with weeds and are choked by the thistles. Let us pray that there are some who will spring up and reproduce in thirty, sixty and a hundred...

The secular ideals at play here cannot be taken too lightly.

As one married Ukrainian Catholic priest once told me: "Whose going to date a guy after you tell her you will have to wear black all of the time and will only make $15,000 a year"? :rolleyes:

I'll leave that digging to Neil - he has an absolute knack of doing it and coming up with the goods too :p

However I do think the question of preparation of clergy wives is a topic of it's own - and a fascinating one too.

After all - not only do they have to cope with a marriage - like the rest of us , and everything that entails , they also have an added facet - a priest in the house permanently [ well -- theoretically he is ]

Here we are slowly getting used to married RC Clergy - there was even a centre page spread in the Scottish Catholic Observer on the married RC Priest Chaplain to one of our northern prisons . [ IF the scanner is working I'll try and get part of it scanned in and posted- he really sounds to be a very special person ]

I don't know if there is any special preparation for wives in the Church of Scotland - but I do know that many Clergy wives there are under a terrific amount of stress - coping with their husband's full time job and then the added stress of always being seen as the Minister's wife - not as a person in their own right.

This can sometimes put an intolerable strain on a marriage and recently we have seen the very sad case of the local Minister , who lives across the road from us , parting company from his wife after some 17 years of marriage .

I'm sure it takes a very special woman to become a Priest's wife - a vocation in itself I would have thought - and even more so I suspect among the Eastern Churches where so many , as I understand it , clergy have to take jobs to eke out the small stipend that their Parish, with the best will in the world , can afford.

Anhelyna

Anhelyna -

I agree. That is one of the reasons why I think priesthood should ordinarily be a second career for married men. Let the witness of their homelife be a factor in determining their fitness for ordination, ala St. Paul's letter to Timothy. It will also allow the married couple to establish their own unique identity as a couple/family before plunging into ministry. Second career folks can serve in their role for 20 years or more, depending on when they retire and their natural lifespans.

My two cents...

Gordo

Dear Myles,

There is a failing in the upbringing of those within my own Greek Orthodox Church. If only Christianity could unite and incorporate some of the gifts that were given to those 'Bible' Protestants. It seems people are so much more devout when living in area's where the Evangelicals, such as the Southern Baptists prevail.

As for my own Greek Orthodox Church, they try to solve the problem of finding wives for priests, by catering to the 'materialism' they so much desire. Needless to say, it doesn't attract the most desireable wives.

Zenovia

I think we're on the same wavelength, Gordo! I was thinking the same thing the past few days. The best training ground for leadership in a congregation begins at HOME. "He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God?" (I Tim. 3:4-5 NAB). The whole listing of qualifications in the chapter implies that a fairly good amount of TIME has elapsed to make sure that this person is well grounded in the faith and works out that faith by having a strong Christian family, and a good reputation among Christians and those outside the faith for things like hospitality, not being quarrelsome, moderate, good teacher, etc. Such a person prays with his family, takes them to services, reads and explains the Scriptures and the Christian faith to the family. The best way to fortify your own understanding of the faith is to see if you can explain it in terms a child can understand.

Also, the deacons who were selected for service in the daily distribution had a certain reputation in the Christian community: "Brothers, select from among you seven reputable men, filled with the Spirit and wisdom, whom we shall appoint to this task" (Acts 6:3)

There are people who are very well qualified in congregations by the criteria the apostle provides, who may be completely looked over because they don't appear to be "priest material" by the modern "academic model" (i.e., you go to school to learn to "become" an accountant, programmer, etc.). Hmm... "...filled with the Spirit and wisdom..." temperate? self-controlled? etc At what school were these acquired? Don't get me wrong, it is important for a spiritual leader to thoroughly know the Scriptures, Church history, fathers, etc and schools can provide this assistance. Although, many of these works can be read/studied in one's leisure...

I'm confused as to the need to hurry up and get married before getting ordained. I know the rules - can only be married BEFORE becoming a priest... about to be ordained ... yikes, find a wife - quick! Still, if God is calling someone to be a married priest, it would appear to me that it would be in the context of the qualifications set down by the apostle - when the person is truly ready by evaluation of his family, Christian and community reputation. The academic portion can happen (and continue) anytime, the practical qualifications require much time - truly, an "elder" in the faith.

In Christ's love,

Woody

I'm afraid that the underlying problem is with those who see their marriage as one more box to check off on their glorious career as a clergyman. (Let all glory be to God.)

Instead, they should see their marriage as their first and most important covenant. As Father Stephen wisely explained (paraphrased), there is a priority of covenants. Which did God give you first, the wife and family or the ecclesiastical responsibilities?

Ordination is never a prerequisite for marriage (in fact, as we know, it prohibits it, unless one seeks "laicization" first), but a GOOD marriage is a prerequisite for ordination, if it is a married man who is being considered for the office.

Let's all read Timothy again. The clear implication is that the marriage is one of longstanding duration, since the children have been raised with discipline. I'm not excluding the ordination of the newly-married, but one can see that it should be the exception.

Clearly, each man should have his own career or means of subsistence. Then, having proven his willingness to work "in the world" for his living, having demonstrated familial love and neighborly love, he might be ordained as a good example for the brothers and sisters.

And should his ecclesiastical duties hinder the sanctity and stability of the marriage and family, it should be abundantly clear to every Christian that the ecclesiastical duties should be put aside, even if only temporarily, in order to keep the marriage healthy.

"Careerism" will kill not only the living Church, but also the families of those who seek it.

In Christ,
Andrew

PS: I apply my comments to all Churches in all places and at all times, not just to the current situation in the Church of Greece.