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What you wrote is quite beautiful!



Let me check to see if I got it correctly.

A valid but non-sacramental marriage means that they still love with God's love and receive Divine mercy healing their brokenness etc. but that because their marriage is not sacramental, it does not achieve it's sacramental purpose, meaning that "the union of man and woman into one flesh" is not attained?

One of the things the Christian East teaches, which is very wise indeed, is not to speculate too deeply about the workings of divine grace.

ok, stopping speculation

last thought: perhaps Orthodox don't have a distinction between "canonical validity" and "sacramentality"?

No, there is a difference, in this case. Because Leo VI gave oversight of marriage to the Church, all the legal aspects of marriage came under Church governance, thus are covered by various canons. The Orthodox Church has canonical standards for the validity of various types of marriage, but (contra Father Ambrose), canonically it recognizes only one type of sacramental marriage, which is the Rite of Crowning in Marriage, that can only be administered to a man and a woman who have never been married before.

As an aside, under Orthodox canons, Betrothal is also binding and would constitute an impediment to a sacramental marriage, which is why, over the centuries, the timing of the betrothal service was moved closer and closer to the Crowning, so that now it takes place in the Narthex of the church, just before the Crowning itself.

If a person wanted to be Crowned after having previously been betrothed to a different person, it would be necessary to declare the betrothal null based on a very limited set of grounds. In the past, the most common reason was lack of free will and intent; i.e., someone (usually the woman) was being forced to marry someone against her consent. In such cases, the Church would usually toss out the previous betrothal (and even the marriage, if it took place) and treat that person as someone who had never been married.

Yes. A valid marriage between two baptized persons is always a sacrament.

I have been a parish priest since 1980 - thirty years. Please do me the courtesy of allowing the faint possibility that I, and my bishops, are better acquainted than you with my Church's teaching on second marriage.

Shlomo Erie Byz,

Your wish is my command. The change has been done.

Fush BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

No, sorry. You are just wrong. Error is not rectified by long custom or use.

Well of course we can all make such affirmations about many aspects of each other's Church but do they have any meaning? I could say the same about the papacy and many of its teachings but it does not negate the fact that such is the teaching of the Catholic Church and to pretend it is not would be very odd.

Look, Father, you can call an ox a bull from now until the Parousia, but you can never give the ox that which he does not have.

Father Hieromonk:

May I put the question to you?

Does ROCOR have the distinction between the idea of "canonical validity" and "sacramentality"?

Does ROCOR recognize marriages between Orthodox and other Christians baptised in the Church of the non-Orthodox? (If recognized, would they be valid and/or sacramental?)

Would ROCOR ever give permission for this to happen.

Would ROCOR ever give permission for an Orthodox to marry an un-baptised? How would the Church look upon that marriage - in terms of validity and sacramentality?

Thanking you Father & kissing your right hand.

Fr. A (I believe you know this already) please do not attempt this discussion with Stuart...He not only knows better than yourself, and your heirarchy...but reading many of his posts he knows more than the pope of Rome and the heirarchy of the catholic church in communion with Rome as well...This is the most brilliant of all men that ever existed

Were I not married, I would begin log rolling for the pontifical throne right now.

Neither term would make much sense, not in ROCA nor in Russia nor in Greece.


Yes, we will perform marriages for Orthodox wishing to marry other Christians (from the mainstream Churches.) Such marriages must be officiated by an Orthodox priest.

Yes. Not just ROCA but all Orthodox Churches.


No


With compassion and understanding.


We do not think in these categories so it is almost impossible for me to formulate an answer. Maybe there are other Orthodox people here who can answer?

Father Ambrose, Bless!

Thank you Father for your answers - VERY interesting and enlightening, especially that "canonical validity" and "sacramentality" are not concepts of Orthodox theology.

I forgot to ask, does the Orthodox Church give permission for an Orthodox and a non-Orthodox Christian to get married IN THE CHURCH OF THE NON-ORTHODOX?

If this were to happen without permission, would the Church recognize the marriage (I'm trying to keep away from the terms "validity" and "sacramentality").

What would happened if an Orthodox married a non-Christian (i.e. a non-baptised). Would the Orthodox be placing themselves outside the Orthodox communion - that is would they be barred from the Holy Mysteries?

I'm presuming these things happened. I am interested to know how the Orthodox Church deals with these problems (which the Catholic Churches also tries to deal with).

kissing your right hand.