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Ask a typical ethnic Ukrainian speaker about Russ and he will tell you to look it up in the history books. These people have 1000 years of culture and language distinct from modern Russia. They have felt themselves as a distinct nation long before the United States even existed. They need no help from the West in order to stir up nationalism. They only need bring to mind recent events of 20th century to create a desire to be apart from Russia (no, I am not anti Russian, just have a lot of experience in western half of Ukraine). Sorry, don't mean to stir things.

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I've been in Moscow several times, but never bought any pirozhis (piroshki, pyrohy, vareniki) there, so I've no basis for an opinion of the matter!

Fr. Serge

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XB

Father bless.

I've purchased piroshki at our local ROCOR parish's festival, but they were not pirohi. They were pastry filled with meat and baked. Quite good.

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Father Bless,

Thank you again. I looked it up also and found that they already have and Orthodox Church and it is recognized by Moscow and the other Sees. This must be one of those nationalist things that we Americans dont understand. It goes without saying that if they have a thousand year history as some point out then we can also assume that they also have a church.

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It's actually easy to understand: The Muscovite Patriarchate has attempted to suppress the Ukrainian liturgical praxis (The Kyivan liturgy) and replace it with the Nikonian Russian liturgy. In the same manner, Russian governments (both Tsarist and Soviet) have consistently tried to suppress the Ukrainian Language. The soviets sent a large number of Ukrainians to the Gulags for being upset about Russification of Ukrainian* Language and lifestyle.

It's a historical truth.

It's only sensible that the Ukrainian synod would ask for, and be denied, autocephaly by Russia. The hatred is long standing, irrational, and integrated into Russian culture. It's bigotry, pure and simple, but it's a socially acceptable one in Russia...

* Really, the differences in the ukrainian I've seen from russian are not that big. Yes, there are differences. But a ukrainian speaker avoiding idiomatic expressions should be intelligible to a russian, and vice versa... at least once they know the difference in pronunciation of certain letters...

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OH my! Kyivan Liturgy? Replacing with Nikonian Recension? A historical truth according to who?

доколе будете любить суету?

Alexandr


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Wow, this degraded into a Ukrainian versus Russian thread faster than these types of threads usually do. frown

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Dr. Eric,

I think any discussion of Patriarch Filaret and the UOC-KP is necessarily one of Ukrainian nationalism.

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Or Russian imperialism--take your choice.

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Ukrainian nationalism as a reation to Russian imperialism?

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They go together like pastrami and rye.

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You can't blame Russia for imperialism, as they have no natural borders in the west, so expansion is the only way for them to maintain their state. It's just very basic geopolitics. Actually, the same applies to Ukraine.

When there's a conflict it doesn't necessarily mean that somebody is doing something wrong and somebody is guilty. It's just the way it is in an imperfect world. But that's just my humble opinion.

And yes, I know that we in Poland are next.

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Originally Posted by Epiphanius
Dr. Eric,

I think any discussion of Patriarch Filaret and the UOC-KP is necessarily one of Ukrainian nationalism.
Originally Posted by StuartK
Or Russian imperialism--take your choice.
Originally Posted by Epiphanius
Ukrainian nationalism as a reation to Russian imperialism?


They are various facets of the same issue: the relationship of Moscow and Kyiv.

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OY!

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Quote
You can't blame Russia for imperialism, as they have no natural borders in the west, so expansion is the only way for them to maintain their state. It's just very basic geopolitics. Actually, the same applies to Ukraine.

So, where do they stop? At the Niemen? At the Oder-Neisse line? It's one vast plain until you get to North Sea. . .

The question begged here is who is Russia's enemy? Neither Ukraine nor Belarus have the military power nor the inclination to invade the Rodina. So is it the Poles? How about the Germans or the Danes?

The simple truth is Western Europe is utterly debellicized. The entire EU spends an average of just 2% of its GDP on military forces, and lacks the manpower, the equipment, and the willpower to project power beyond its own borders. Simply putting 50,000 men into Afghanistan has the NATO alliance at full stretch--and the Russians know this full well.

Western Europe has some 1.6 million men in uniform. Of these, only about 120,000 can be considered combat ready, and of those, only some 60,000 in all are "deployable". Russia has nothing to fear from its European neighbors.

Those who want to read more, go to my article Coalition of the Incapable [weeklystandard.com] . Though I wrote it almost three years ago, nothing much has changed. If anything, the situation has gotten worse due to the European financial crisis and subsequent recession,

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