www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology The Russians under the Melkites?

Although true, that was not the point at issue. Aramis' comment suggested that many clergy serving Russian parishes were biritual Latins - with Byzantine faculties. That Father Alexei (who serves as Ecumenical Officer for the Archdiocese of LA) has been accorded bi-ritual faculties for the Latin Rite is the obverse of the situation that was presented as common.

Many years,

Neil

All biritual priests I know of are Latins in the first place, their Byzantine faculties are secondary. Is it a general rule or just "local folklore"?

I've met some Ruthenian priests with Latin Faculties.

Rt Rev. Msgr. Mitered Archpriest Michael Artim, of Eternal Memory *
Rev. Fr. James

And a deacon
Deacon Norbert Finh, O.P. (Ukrainian)

And have encountered online some others deacons; one Maronite, with Latin faculties.

Many, some say most, Ethiopian Church priests are biritual Ethiopian/Roman. The two I've met were trained in both in seminary, but are formally Ethiopian.

* Msgr. Artim was granted the title Msgr by the Roman Rite Archbishop of Anchorage, and Mitered Archpriest by a Ruthenian Bishop (Bp. George, I think) of Van Nuys.

There is a priest of the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh who has faculties in the Latin Diocese of Youngstown and is temporarily released to them. I just cannot remember his name.

In the late 1990's, there was discussion of uniting the then three Russian Catholic parishes into a vicariate, which would be attached to the Melkite Eparchy of Newton. Unfortunately, not much progress developed afterwards.

It is interesting to see the Russian Centres in the USA described as parishes. The Russian Centre in Melbourne never had that status and Fr George recorded all Baptisms etc in the local RC parish registers. for the sort period when a Jesuit did the services in Sydney I suppose they did the same there. I doubt if anyone would know where to find these records today in Sydney. Seems the Russian Centres all around the globe are really struggling to keep going.

There are three Eastern Catholic priests in town. All three have biritual faculties for latin.

One is also the judicial vicar for the latin diocese. Ours works a couple of days a week at a latin parish, and another at the latin diocese, and is in training to be the next judicial vicar.

Wait, how can I forget--there's a fourth, but he's retired. Upon retirement, he changed ritual to Ruthenian; I assume he still has latin biritual faculties.

hawk

Peter,

It's certainly the norm, albeit there are exceptions such as those pointed out in the last few posts above. Additionally, there are some categories of exception that haven't been noted:

priests of any of the Eastern or Oriental Catholic Churches sui iuris who serve as chaplains in any branch of the US military have to obtain bi-ritual faculties in the Latin Rite (I think that's also true of those who serve as chaplains to the US Veterans Administration health care system);

priests of the Society of Jesus who are specifically ordained for the service of an Eastern or Oriental Catholic Church sui iuris [versus those Jesuits who were initially ordained as Latins and subsequently accepted to the Society's ' Eastern Province'] are ordained in the Rite of that particular Church, but are required to subsequently be accorded bi-ritual faculties in the Latin Rite ;

(I'm not positive but) the same situation as described for the Jesuits may also be true in the case of those other principally Western religious orders which have defined provinces or sections that serve in Eastern or Oriental Churches (Benedictines, Franciscans, Marianists, Assumptionists, Salesians, and Redemptorists come to mind).

The situation is a bit different with respect to the non-Byzantine Churches. As my brother, aramis, correctly notes:


In fact, the vast majority, if not all, priests of the Ethiopian Church sui iuris are accorded bi-ritual faculties in the Latin Rite (and the obverse is true of Latin Rite Ethiopian priests). It goes hand-in-hand with the unusual set-up of canonical jurisdictions in Ethiopia - where those of the Ethiopian and Latin Churches are exclusive, rather than overlapping and each must, of necessity, afford pastoral care to the faithful of the other Church who reside outside the geographic bounds of their own jurisdictions.

As regards priests of the Syro-Malabar Church sui iuris, the majority also hold bi-ritual faculties in the Latin Rite. The very significant number of priestly vocations in that Church have made it a ready source for priests to be 'loaned' to Latin jurisdictions, not only in India, but elsewhere.

I don't know that the numbers are substantial, but I have known several Maronite priests with bi-ritual Latin faculties.

As far as I know, it's not particularly common among the Coptic, Syriac, Armenian, Chaldean, or Syro-Malankara presbyterates.

There are a few other combinations to be found from time to time:

One can find priests of the three Antiochian Patriarchates (Maronites, Melkites, and Syriacs) who have faculties in one or both of their Sister Churches.

A few years ago, Deacon Randy mentioned a priest of his acquaintance with faculties in 4 Churches besides the Byzantine Church to which he was ordained.

I know one Melkite priest with both Armenian and Latin faculties (and who has also, at various times, served in parishes of least 2 other Byzantine Rite Churches - Ukrainian and Russian - besides his own).

There are some Malankara and Malabarese priests with faculties in each other's Churches. In particular, the Syro-Malabarese maintain a vicariate comprising 15 parishes in one of their eparchies for Syro-Malankara Knanaites, in which the liturgical forms are those of the Malankarese's ancestral (Antiochene) Rite (despite that the Malabarese Church is of the Chaldean Rite) employing a Knanaite Usage (most Knanaites are Malabarese).

Many years,

Neil

GC,

I think 'discussion' is a generous term. It was definitely 'floated' as an idea (and it was a good one), but I don't think it ever got serious attention by anyone other than those who advanced it for consideration - certainly not by the Colonial Office.

Many years,

Neil

As discussed here on earlier occasions, deacons do not technically receive biritual faculties. With the permission of his own bishop, a deacom may be given a blessing by a bishop of another Church sui iuris to serve in the latter's jurisdiction.

Three examples come immediately to mind (albeit not Byzantines serving in the Latin Church, as we began discussion of): our own Deacon Ed Faulk, who was ordained a Latin deacon, but serves a Melkite parish; Deacon Stan (husband of Pani Rose), who was ordained a Ruthenian deacon, but serves a Melkite parish; and, Deacon Lawrence Cross, who was ordained a Melkite deacon, but served a Russian parish (prior to his presbyteral ordination).

There is at least one deacon of the Melkite Eparchy of Newton who presently serves a Latin parish, due to there being no Byzantine parishes in the area to which he had to relocate for employment reasons.

Many years,

Neil

Neil,

Also, there is a Melkite Deacon - drawing a blank on his name - who serves the Ruthenian Mission in New Orleans.

Hi Irish Melkite,

"Discussion" is the right word, because I was personally there when it was discussed among represenataives of the three Russian Catholic parishes. It took place during one of the Melkite Conventions. It sounded promising, but as I said previously nothing came of it afterwards.

God bless,
GC

GC,

We are not in disagreement then. I was thinking of 'discussion' in the context of those at levels where such ideas are approved or not.

Many years,

Neil

Rose,

Yes, you're thinking of Deacon Gregory Haddad.

Many years,

Neil

It's my understanding this is what will be the case when our Fr Hierdeacon Christopher is ordained to the priesthood at the end of this month. He is canonically Ukrainian but raised Latin and is a Dominican monk.

We in SF are a tiny but very faithful parish. Please keep us in your prayers. This past Sunday was of course All Saints of America and Russia. I think it's fair to say that when we pray in every Liturgy for the "founders...of this holy temple" we do so with the deepest gratitude for what they have given us.

I tear up every time I listen to (28)"Rejoice, All Saints of North America” [stnicholasmarin.org]. I wish we would sing it.

Rejoice, O hills of Northern California; leap for joy, O mountains of Alaska; rise up, O fertile plains of North America; the elect of Christ who dwelt in you are glorified, men and women who left their homes for a new land!
With faith, hope and patience as their armor, they courageously fought the good fight.
Comforted by the beauty of the Orthodox Faith, they labored in mines and mills, they tilled the land, they braved the challenges of the great cities, enduring many hardships and sufferings.
Never failing to worship God in spirit and truth and unyielding in devotion to His most pure Mother, they erected many temples to His glory.
Come, O assembly of the Orthodox, and with love let us praise the holy women, men and children, those known to us and those known only to God, and let us cry out to them Rejoice, All Saints of North America and pray to God for us!”