www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Churches converted into Mosques

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Stuart,

I understand. Like I said, I know what I said would be the ideal. But reality can be much different. I know, lets all win the lottery and get nice church buildings for everyone lol

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

It's so much harder than you can imagine to build a proper church these days, particularly in the U.S. The first hurdle is cost, which is what drove Holy Transfiguration to go with a prefabricated light industrial structure on a concrete slab. Before they put the new front on the building to house the offices and classrooms, it looked like a self-storage warehouse, and you could drive right by it. The interior was gorgeous, without a doubt, and a very proper Byzantine church--but there are compromises--the limited headroom has kept the solea low, the absence of a real dome requires a flat Pantocrator, the absence of an apsidal conch detracts from the impact of the Virgin of the Sign; the acoustics leave a lot to be desired. But it works, and it was what the people could afford.

The other barrier is an increasingly hostile governmental and regulatory environment. Nearby Epiphany of Our Lord had to go through more than two years of regulatory review and got shaken down by the Fairfax County planning commission and zoning board (I've spoken to people in other churches of other confessions who have had similar experiences). Churches are, apparently, to be discouraged in residential neighborhoods (so much for the walk to church) and banished to commercial zones or outer suburbs, because counties and municipalities don't want to take property out of their tax base, and because aggressively secular neighborhood associations have extended NIMBY to houses of worship (the noise, the traffic, the parking--it might affect our property values and quality of life).

So, I'm happy when a church which would otherwise go to secular purposes is given to a Christian community that will put it to good use. I've seen what can be done with formerly Methodist or Baptist churches, and the results can be quite edifying.

Hi Manuel,

I thought the RC had a policy about using lottery money for the Church. I thought it wasn't allowed?

Dear Stuart,

Like I said, lets win the lottery, with all that money all those zoning issues won't be issues anymore . . . you know ;-) :-P lol. For those that might misunderstand, I am joking here.

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

Glory to Jesus Christ!



Thanos,

I was joking. Note my other post just after yours . . .

Kyrie eleison,

Manuel

If they do, I never heard of it. In principle, then, that would also mean the end of Bingo, which is the Eighth Sacrament, and the entire Church would implode.

I think the Church ought to take the same tack as the Emperor Vespasian:

Coming to power at the end of the Year of the Four Emperors, Vespasian found that Nero and the brief civil war had emptied the imperial coffers. He therefore imposed a 1/4 as tax on public urinals. His son, the noble and high-minded Titus, objected that using revenue from such a source demeaned the imperial dignity.

Vespasian, tough old Italian peasant that he was, took a coin from his purse, held it under Titus' nose and said, "Do not worry, my son, it does not stink".

Stuart:

The "eighth sacrament . . ."

I have to laugh because my baptismal parish once had a sign at the entrance to the parking lot that listed the bingo times in larger letters than the Mass times.

BOB

But, Bob, the Bingo probably got a better turnout than the Mass.

Certainly more remunerative.

We'd be in trouble here without such money

several decades ago, casinos donated land and paid for the construction of Guardian Angel Shrine. They asked for a 4 A.M. (?) or so Mass in return, for workers coming off shift. THis would become a parish, then the co-cathedral for the Diocese of Reno/Las Vegas, and is now the Cathedral of the Diocese of Las Vegas.

When I first visited, the Cathedral held Mass every hour on Sunday, with Mass on the half-hour in the hall. The priest advied visitors not to be shy about dropping chips into the collection; they amounted to about 10% . . .

The Cathedral is at the northern end of the strip (South of the Riviera). As the strip grew, it couldn't handle the load, and a Shrine was built at the other end.

Oops.

Nevada Law doesn't allow building a casino within a certain distance of a church. The bishop had to actively step forward and waive this requirement ("you idiots, we're building it for the guests at those casinos!").

Bing Crosby threw a benefit to build the Church up the street (he was dismayed to find them meeting in a saloon).

Never turn down the money due to its source; we can put it to a higher purpose

There is a moral issue about funding churches through gambling activities. Gambling is basically a tax on stupidity, and one that disproportionately affects the poor. Gambling can also be addictive and leads to a host of other social pathologies, including divorce, crime, suicide, etc. I would much prefer if we could fund our parishes in other ways, i.e., by tithing (good luck with that) or by the production and sale of religious items such as icons, but at present that seems utterly impractical, which leaves us in the morally ambiguous position of promoting vice to fund virtue.

I guess that I should note here that Las Vegas gambling is different in nature than in the rest of the country. This town is not so much in the gambling business as the fantasy business. People come to this alternate reality for a weekend or a week, then go home to the real world. Most know how much they have to lose, and stick reasonably well to that--and occasionally win. Gambling is part of the shtick here, as opposed to real gambling.

Local gambling, including Indian casinos and state lottereies, is a fundamentally different economic behavior then destination gambling. People are attempting to win, and do it regularly.

Not that there aren't plenty of vices and sin available here in Sin City . . .

Thanks for your responses.

Slava Isusu Khrestu

Hello
This age old question in many churches as well in the the RC church about lottery money and its use in charity etc has been partially addressed by Bishop Frederick Henry of the diocese of Calgary Canada. this site will help answer the questions or at least some of them.

http://wcr.ab.ca/old-site/news/1999/0315/fundraisingethics031599.shtml

Z Bohom
Kolya