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#39119 08/06/06 05:55 PM
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This morning before Liturgy, one of my friends, a former Roman Catholic, handed me a brown scapular. While I was touched by this act of friendship, it lends itself to some questions which have been nagging at me for some time.

1. Fatima advocates: One gets the feeling that if the current pope and bishops would just consecrate Russia, everything would be honkey dorey in the world in short order. It makes me think that there is no other recourse for world peace but the fulfillment of Fatima and the prophecies.

2. The brown scapular. The accompanying paperwork seems to suggest that those who wear it faithfully and accompany that wearing with the Rosary and other prayers will surely escape damnation. Well, sheeesh, where does that leave centuries of Orthodox holy men and women who would have nothing to do with such practices?

3. The Rosary. The way I hear it described, it is one of the most powerful prayers on the planet. Yet the deliverance of Constantinople from the Turks was accomplished by the Theotokos without any reference to that discipline.

Well, should I wear the brown scapular as an Eastern Catholic? We have a lot of Latin "refugees" from the Novus Ordo in our parish and while they are good Eastern Catholics, they have a lot of "crossover" practices such as the Rosary and praying the hours from the Latin prayer book.

What is your take on all this?

Thank you.

Brother Ed

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I think the brown scapular properly used, reflects Carmelite spirituality. My own experience is that Carmelite spirituality is rather ascetic and penitential. Now I find that spirituality fits in rather well with the desert fathers and eastern spirituality. However, there is a good bit of Latin hysteria surrounding the scapular. That hysteria is even worse with the rosary. It is possible, however, to extract the good from those devotions while tossing out the hysterics. Just my 2 cents.

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Quote
Originally posted by Altar Boy:
This morning before Liturgy, one of my friends, a former Roman Catholic, handed me a brown scapular. While I was touched by this act of friendship, it lends itself to some questions which have been nagging at me for some time.

2. The brown scapular. The accompanying paperwork seems to suggest that those who wear it faithfully and accompany that wearing with the Rosary and other prayers will surely escape damnation. Well, sheeesh, where does that leave centuries of Orthodox holy men and women who would have nothing to do with such practices?

3. The Rosary. The way I hear it described, it is one of the most powerful prayers on the planet. Yet the deliverance of Constantinople from the Turks was accomplished by the Theotokos without any reference to that discipline.
If I may, as a Western Catholic who wears the scapular medal, I'd suggest this:
Surely the literature doesn't claim this as the only way to salvation? Therefore there is no negative take on those who have other practices. What you quote seems free from the imprudent impression sometimes given that merely to wear the scapular guarantees heaven, as if it were a sort of amulet or talisman, which would be rank superstition.

To call the Rosary "one of" the most powerful prayers directly implies other prayers are also "most powerful", and certainly does not denigrate the Akathist or any other devotion.

Having said that, I see no reason why a Byzantine should feel obliged to use any Western devotion, and every reason to be chary of doing so.

Blessings with you.

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I think it depends on where you are spiritually. Do you have a desire to wear the scapular? If not, then it is an easy answer in that you shouldn't. Is your question more of a theoretical one, though? If so, I can relate. The rosary seems to be the shibboleth of Catholicism. If you recite it by memory, if you include the Fatima prayer, and if you include the luminous mysteries are all gate keys to getting in with the right crowd. It reminds me of a joke by Emo Philips.

Quote
In a conversation with a suicidal man threatening to jump off a bridge:
I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian."
I said, "Me too. Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me too. What franchise?" He says, "Baptist."
I said, "Me too. Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He says, "Northern Baptist."
I said, "Me too. Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?" He says, "Northern Conservative Baptist."
I said, "Me too. Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist or Northern Conservative Reformed Baptist?" He says, "Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist."
I said, "Me too. Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Eastern Region?" He says, "Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region."
I said, "Me too. Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1879 or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1912?" He says, Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1912."
I said, "Die, heretic!" and I pushed him over.

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Prayer(regular)is what you may have been invited to engage in. There are no magic rituals that will achieve particular ends, wearing this or saying particular prayers. It might have been wiser to decline the offer and maybe tell the friend of your Byzantine spirituality that leaves you no time for anything else. Maybe no one has taken the time to introduce the 'newbies' to Byzantine Spirituality so not having anything else they have fallen back on old favourites.

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Quote
Originally posted by Altar Boy:

3. The Rosary. The way I hear it described, it is one of the most powerful prayers on the planet. Yet the deliverance of Constantinople from the Turks was accomplished by the Theotokos without any reference to that discipline.

Well, should I wear the brown scapular as an Eastern Catholic? We have a lot of Latin "refugees" from the Novus Ordo in our parish and while they are good Eastern Catholics, they have a lot of "crossover" practices such as the Rosary and praying the hours from the Latin prayer book.

What is your take on all this?

Thank you.

Brother Ed
The reason that the Rosary has such a mystique and supposed power behind it is that St. Pius V had all of the Catholic world praying the Rosary during the Battle of Lepanto. The Christian fleet was vastly outnumbered by the Turkish Navy. In the end the Turks were defeated and the Catholic world was safe... for a time being. So, in the Latin mind the prayers of the Rosary are effecatious for victory over our foes physical or spiritual. In fact, the Feast of the victory over the Turks on 7 October was called, up until Vatican II, the Feast of Our Lady of Victory.

As far as the scapular is concerned, it seems to be a Latin devotion. I would tell you to graciously accept the scapular as a Latin doesn't part with his scapular easily (I gave the one off of my back to a soldier I met on the plane to L.A. since he was going to Iraq.) If you wish to wear it, wear it as a sign of Devotion to the Holy Theotokos. If you do not wish to wear it keep it on your bed post as a sign of protection or as a book mark in your Giant Family Bible. That's where my old one is, as it broke and the strings could not be repaired.

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I can give you my perspective from an Orthodox(ROCOR) perspective. I had a patient who gave me his scapular on his deathbed. Now the whole Fatima, Sanctification of Russia thing might raise my eyebrows, but this is a blessed object held in great devotion by a pious Roman Catholic layman. So while I do not wear it, it holds a place of honor in my Icon corner at my office, draped over an Icon of Blessed Augustine. When I do my pokloni before starting out for the day, it reminds me of him and I pray for the salvation of his soul.

Alexandr

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Thank you all for your responses. I've been thinking about this some more, and perhaps have something of more clarity regarding my thinking on the issue.

If our Lady appeared to various saints and gave them these prayers, and if we accept these visions as authentic, why would this not be the will of God for all on the road of salvation?

Does that make sense?

Am I being too black/white and either/or in this issue?

Is it perhaps that this is for those in the West and our Lord has other devotions with equal importance to our souls for those in the East?

Brother Ed

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Brother Ed,

I believe your last sentence is the correct idea.

God Bless You,

Dr. Eric

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Quote
Originally posted by Wondering:

Quote
In a conversation with a suicidal man threatening to jump off a bridge:
I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian."
I said, "Me too. Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me too. What franchise?" He says, "Baptist."
I said, "Me too. Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He says, "Northern Baptist."
I said, "Me too. Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?" He says, "Northern Conservative Baptist."
I said, "Me too. Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist or Northern Conservative Reformed Baptist?" He says, "Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist."
I said, "Me too. Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Eastern Region?" He says, "Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region."
I said, "Me too. Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1879 or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1912?" He says, Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1912."
I said, "Die, heretic!" and I pushed him over.
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I got a scapular sometime when I was a kid and taught that if I got into a car accident, but was wearing the scapular (and clean underwear, of course), I'd go right on to heaven. I found it uncomfortable and didn't wear it. But you'll see some folks hang them from their rearview mirrors.

As for Fatima, I find some people do get a bit crazy over this. Also, I find it insulting in these times, with the fall of communism, that people thing the Catholics should consecrate Russia. It's really up to the Russians to consecrate it themselves, I would think.

I've never been so big on sacramentals, but I respect those who find comfort in them. I also get a bit peeved at those who push them on me, but I try not to.

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What exactly are the Eastern sacramentals like? Do you have medals as well?

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What is a "sacramental"?

Is it like an icon?

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Well, a sacramental is, grosso modo, another way of receiving graces apart from the sacraments. In the sacraments, you know God's grace is there; in sacraments it might not necessarily be the case. (I know this is an oversimplification, so please feel free to correct me.)
Examples of sacramentals: holy water, blessed palms, readings of the Gospel at Mass, medals, scapulars, etc.

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I don't know that "sacramental" is a Byzantine concept, at least I am not familiar with the term within our ecclesial context.

We certainly have holy water, blessed willows/palms, the Holy Gospel is read at various Divine Services (Utrenya, Royal Hours, etc.) - I believe that these are grace-bearing. Icons are particularly holy and special in our spiritual journey.

On the other hand, we don't have a fixed number of Holy Mysteries (we say we have "at least" 7, but others could be monastic tonsure, the funeral service, etc.)

We don't have medals or scapulars, though some of our monastics wear the Paraman and the Great Schema includes something that looks like a scapular (but with holy designs upon it both front and back, (even the hood has holy designs on it)), but I suspect comes from very different origins - despite it's superficial similarity to scapulars.

Does this help?

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