www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Queen Sofia of Spain attends Papal Mass

I was extremely disturbed to learn that Queen Sofia of Spain, ex-Greek Orthodox and for the last few decades Roman Catholic, refused to kneel to receive Our Lord in Holy Communion from the hands of the Pope.

As many of you know, the Holy Father has made it a policy that at Masses celebrated by him, the people who receive communion from him kneel on a small, moveable kneeler set before him. This has been going on for some time now. Never have I had the misfortune to see anyone refuse to kneel.

Moreover, the fact that Her Majesty refused to kneel was shocking to me. I suppose I felt that as a former member of a Church which places great value on the Liturgy and reverence in receiving the Body and Blood of Christ that she of all people would be among the most willing.

All of this is, I suppose, complicated by the fact that currently in the Roman Church it is not allowable to deny someone Holy Communion just because he or she decides to kneel or to remain standing. So technically she was within her rights as a Catholic, but since it is clear what the Holy Father desires, I found it pretty unbelievable.

On top of that, Her Majesty seems to have forgotten her mantilla (which I've seen her wear many times before, for specifically ecclesial functions, i.e. not just some Spanish cultural event where a mantilla would be expected for its cultural meanings somewhat apart from its religious symbolism).

Go here to see the picture: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/11/noblesse-ought-to-oblige/ and Father Z's commentary.

Anyway, to me this highlights not only a seriously defective judgment on Her Majesty's part, but again makes me wish the practice of receiving Holy Communion while standing be abolished, since the irony of this mess is that she was technically within her rights.

Of course I understand that standing to receive is the norm in the Byzantine Rite and in no way think that this posture is by its nature inferior to receiving while kneeling. But we all know what the traditional practice of the Roman Church has been for centuries upon centuries.

Additionally, apparently Her Majesty received in the hand, not on the tongue. Again, her right, but never done at Papal Masses where the communicant receives from the Holy Father.

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on the subject, especially in light of Her Majesty's Orthodox background.

I mean, who does she think she is - the Queen of England?! (Sorry, couldn't resist...)

Alexis

P.S. In all fairness to Her Majesty, and as some posters speculate (very charitably) over at Father Z's blog, we can only hope that Her Majesty was impeded by some ailment. But, in all honesty, I saw no sign of that at the Mass.

Without knowing all the facts, it appears that if Queen Sophia was asserting her Orthodoxy she should not have received Communion in the hand. Either she is very confused or has another agenda.

Paul,

I don't think she was asserting her Orthodoxy - she's not Orthodox and hasn't been in decades, and I've never heard of a desire on her behalf to act and believe as anything other than a Roman Catholic Christian. And as you said, such a posture and type of reception would not be reflective of Orthodoxy, anyway.

Alexis

And take a look at the Pope's face and the faces of the clerics behind her. Looks like everyone was pretty shocked...

Alexis

Guys,

As an Orthodox Christian, I would encourage everyone to kneel when receiving the Holy Communion.

Please she was not asserting anything!

Well done to His Holiness Pope Benedict!! That's a great policy that he should apply to EVERYONE having the Holy Communion.

I'm EXTREMELY disappointed, to say the least, at her behaviour. As Orthodox Christians, although we are divided, we acknowledge that THIS IS the TRUE Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ on the Catholic Altar.

I think she should have been asked to kneel. We kneel in our Church (we should do at least!).

LOL...you are too funny!!!

As for the Queen, one would think, that of all the people who should know protocol and etiquette, it would be she! Even Princess Diana and other non-Catholics wear a mantilla on their heads when meeting the Pope...Hmmm....

For not receiving on the tongue, well, as Alexis says, it is permissable, so she was within her right.

As for not kneeling, let's remember that she is over 50, and that she could very well have some type of difficulty in her knees.

One never knows what ailments another is dealing with that prevent them from proper ecclesiastical reverences; especially when they are in her age group; and let's also not let appearances be deceiving--yes, she looks great, fit, healthy and slim...but that means nothing.

I have been taught (by an Orthodox archimandrite) that it is inappropriate to take photos during Holy Communion...

She just celebrated her 72nd birthday :-)
Although the protocol calls for kneeling when receiving from HH Pope Benedict XVI, I see no problem with her standing, for reasons of economia.

Personally, I wish she had received the Eucharist on the tongue.

Papal Masses are frequently televised. I didn't see this dedication Mass but from others I have seen it appears that many of the female faithful come forward without a head-covering to receive Holy Eucharist from His Holiness. To the extent this appears to show a lack of respect it's really unfortunate. She's worn head coverings at other Masses. Who knows what the reason for this may be...

Logos-Alexis,

You sound as if you were the Pope you would have held up the host and scolded the queen. Looks to me like she is making a very reverential bow and receiving her Lord in a way honored and sanctioned by her Church. Keep away from those awful blog spots, and be mindful that His disciples plucked grain on the Sabbath, and their Master dined with sinners and tax collectors.

Goody-goody gum-drops for Queen Sofia.

I'm astonished that anyone even gives a hoot about this subject. If the Queen of Spain wants to dance the fandango down the aisle, castanets a clacking', on her way to receive Communion, my reaction would be "how odd", and then I'd immediately forget it.

It ain't got nothin' to do with me & I find it hard to see that it has anything to do with anybody (other than the Queen, the Pope and the Lord Jesus Himself; and I bet it didn't fret Him none.)

We got more crucial stuff to be concerned about.

Relax, y'all. This post ain't no attack on nothin' nor nobody so please don't come flyin' back at me over it.

Well, I take a line of reasoning quite apart from that of the last two posters...

Utroque,

Thank you for the blog advice. I agree that sometimes some of the more popular "traditional" or traditionally-minded Catholic blogs can get a little nutty sometimes.

But, in this circumstance, (and this speaks to sielos' point), I think something like this is relevant, of great importance, and worthy of a blog post, at minimum. You see, sielos, I believe that it is the responsibility of every Catholic, of every Christian, to take note of how we are communicating. We are literally eating God's Flesh and drinking His Blood. It's the ultimate act of God-to-human intimacy in this life. And so when someone in such a prominent position as the Queen of Spain seemingly goes out of her way (I mean, it looked like quite the balancing act!) to receive Holy Communion in a manner inconsistent with the traditional practices of her ritual Church, the Pope's clear instructions and preferences, and just plain good manners, I don't see the problem with wanting to discuss it. It has real implications.

And I would hope that you would care if anyone, including Queen Sofia of Spain, "danced the fandango" down the aisle on his way to receiving Our Lord, if for nothing other than that this moment is intensely sacred in every respect, and given our Apostolic Christian belief that outward actions are reflective of inward realities, it's appropriate to expect, hope, and pray that everyone who receives is in a mindset suited to the sacrality of the experience.

No one's saying it's the end of the world. Only that it is legitimate to take interest and concern in it.

Alexis

You may be right. Paz con nosotros.

I think it is legitimate to discuss what happened. But I think the subject line of this thread is misleading. We don't know that "Queen Sofia of Spain Refuses to Kneel". As has been pointed out, it may be that she was unable to kneel for health reasons.

I think it is inappropriate to assume that Queen Sofía had any bad intention, when there is no evidence to support this theory. All we know is that she did not kneel. It would have been good if she had done so, but we do not know why she did not.

"Judge not, that you may not be judged" (Matthew 7:1).

Latin Catholic,

In hindsight I agree that the title of the thread is not the wisest choice. Perhaps "Queen Sofia of Spain Doesn't Kneel to Receive."

Alexis

Yes, that would be more factual.

There is video of the Mass here:

Part 1 [rtve.es]

Part 2 [rtve.es]

Part 3 [rtve.es]

It was a beautiful Mass, and I hope it won't be remembered only for Queen Sofía's apparent faux pas.

It appears that the Queen dressed in traditonal white (as this is possibly not a State Visit the Queen is not wearing more formal dress on this occasion) received communion at the throne and in the photo she is leaning over, as they are on different floor levels. It does not appear that there is anything to kneel on anyway, as it is she has moved forward to make it easier for the Pope to give her communion. I assume there was a kneeler in the usual place for the Pope to give communion to those chosen to receive from him, back in front of the altar.

If you watch the video (Part 3 [rtve.es]), you'll see (at 21:30) that there was a prie-dieu in place for the Queen to kneel on. Instead of kneeling, she made a rather awkward maneuver around it. Why she didn't use the prie-dieu, we don't know. However, she did make a profound bow when she received Holy Communion, so I don't think we have the right to ascribe any bad intention to the Queen.

Logos-Alexis,

You do not know she refused to kneel. Perhaps she cannot kneel, perhaps their Catholic Majesties have the privelege of standing to receive. I noticed they did not kneel after the Sanctus either. Watching the video the Holy Father did not look at distressed and didn't miss a beat. You really need to stop and think before you post.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Father Deacon Lance,

I mostly agree with you, but, while I may be wrong, I don't think there is any such privilege. Rather, one is not required to kneel immediately after the Sanctus. In the 3rd Eucharistic Prayer, which was used here, the ministers knelt at Supplices ergo, but according to Ordo Missæ ad usum fidelium (4th edition, Città del Vaticano: Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 2003) one is not supposed to kneel until Ipse enim. Kneeling at Supplices ergo makes a lot of sense, though, since this is the beginning of the epiclesis.

Frankly, I think there is, sadly, so much liturgical confusion in the Western Catholic Church today that even her Catholic Majesty may be excused for perhaps not knowing exactly what to do.

That, of course, is why the Reform of the Reform promoted by Pope Benedict XVI is so urgently needed. We really do need a new liturgical movement. [newliturgicalmovement.org]

Christ is in our midst!!

Perhaps it would have been better if Her Majesty had signaled in advance that she would prefer not to kneel. For me, the only thing that really should matter is not to do things that are unexpected in a situation. There is always ample time to let those who ought to know if there is need for a little change in what is expected rather than to cause a scene and possibly scandal. Surely Her Majesty has a secretary who could have alerted the Holy Father's Master of Ceremonies or other assisting minister and averted all this hullabaloo.

In Christ,

Bob

Bob,

I agree. What happened did seem awkward and should have been avoided. But I am more inclined to think that there may have been a bit of confusion and bad communication than to think that the Queen made some kind of protest [marymagdalen.blogspot.com], which is just plain silly, if not downright offensive.

Also, I do hope that what will be remembered is the fact that the Holy Father has dedicated an architectural masterpiece to the glory and service of God. That is the main thing here, I feel.

I am, frankly, amazed at the willingness of so many to discern both the thinking of Queen Sophia and the reaction of HH Benedict, and perhaps the more amazed at the willingness to conclude that they have the right to decide whether or not the Queen acted appropriately.

Regardless of our personal beliefs as to the posture that one should assume in reception of the Mystery of the Eucharist, the fact remains that, in the Latin Church, reception while standing is an acceptable posture and reception in hand is allowed.

While HH has apparently an expressed preference to offer the Mystery to communicants in the kneeling posture, he has not declared that standing is an unacceptable posture.

Likewise, he has reportedly expressed a preference to offer the Mystery on the tongue, rather than in hand. Again, however, he has not taken upon himself to declare that such be the manner for reception.

That means that Catholics of the Latin Church have the right to both stand and to receive in hand in the Latin Church. Whether the Pope has an alternative preference or not is neither here nor there. He is the Pope; he is not God. His infallibility, if one accepts it, does not extend to his preferences and since Latins may not be denied the Mystery if they choose to kneel, they presumably cannot be denied the Mystery if they choose to stand - since that too is normative.

So, get over it, folks. The lady is 72 years of age. Whether she elected to stand because she likes to or is infirm is neither our business nor have we the right to sit in judgment of her on the matter. Likewise, whether she chooses to receive in hand or on the tongue. Likewise, whether she wears white or chartreuse and whether she elects to go about bareheaded, wear a mantilla, or don a hat in the style of Queen Elizabeth.

When appointed to the protocol staff of the Vatican, feel free to demand of visiting heads of state and their consorts that they adhere to the protocol that you've decreed. Otherwise, get on with your own lives and concerns. I heartily wish that prayer threads evoked the degree of interest that's been put into this silliness.

Many years,

Neil

Neil

Well said. I too was disconcerted about this whole thread. There does occasionally seem to be a serious case of hypersensitivity to the little t's around, maybe at the expense of the big T's.

My own sense is that this Pope is quite above the idiosyncratic peculiarities that lead too many priests to assault the sensitivities of innocent people who violate their personal priestly preferences. I guess you could call that their PPPs.

Jim

That would definitely make sense...unfortunately, it happens alot--even within Orthodoxy.

Maybe did anyone ever think, she has knee problems like me.
I dont think I would have, or even been able to kneel.
Stephanos I

Agreed!

I just watched the video, and I noticed no "hullabaloo" when the Holy Father gave Her Majesty Holy Communion. The Pope may have been privately distressed, but if so this was not visible.

So why did Her Majesty not adopt the kneeling posture? I have no way of knowing. It has already been remarked that the Queen of Spain is of an age where that might well have been proper (I'm 68 and I am physically almost incapable of kneeling without a good pillow and two assistants).

His Majesty King Juan Carlos did not receive Holy Communion, presumably because of a difficulty between the Spanish government and the Holy See over certain matters to do with Catholic marriage law. The King is not in a position to interfere with the Spanish government in the matter; the government is of course at liberty to take up the matter via the Papal Nuntio and/or the Spanish Ambassador to the Holy See.

Finally, and purely for the sake of comic relief, I shall offer an old quotation to the effect that "the Queen of Spain has no legs"! I hasten to add that neither the origin nor the use of this expression have anything to do with religion, but rather with the propriety of a particular gift presented on one occasion to the then Queen of Spain. It is thought to refer to the later sixteenth century.

Fr. Serge

I have just watched the footage and notice that the Queen has to lean well over towards the Pope, who seems to be unable to get very close to her. Possibly the flower display in front of the dais the King and Queen are on got in the way. Quick thinking on the part of the Queen saved the moment. A very nice Mass thanks for posting the links.

Unfortunately, reading some Roman Catholic websites and blogs (even by some clergy) commenting on the event, one would think that the way the Queen went to Communion was the result of a liberalist, Masonic conspiracy that was put in motion to bring down the church and turn back the "new liturgical movement" that is supposedly afoot.

Let's not even mention that she wore white and her head wasn't covered!

As for why the King didn't go to Communion, that's between him and God and no one else's business.

All,

I apologize for not commenting more recently. It's that time of year with exams coming up, etc. I just want to say that I'm sorry if some thought this post was needless, frivolous, or worse - accusatory without enough justification to back it up. Perhaps it was.

At the same time, the snarky remarks denigrating people who actually care about whether or not a Catholic monarch observes basic protocol (if you wear white, then veil, etc.) are curious to me. I guess I just have to disagree that noticing or opining on these things is somehow petty and/or unbecoming behavior.

Ah, the hapless plight of a traditional-leaning Latin on a Byzantine forum (even one as much beloved as this). Guess it comes with the territory.

Alexis

Alexis,

I for one see no problem with the original post, which included some qualifications and reservations which were perhaps lost during the discussion.

I think there is no doubt at all that it would have been better if Queen Sofía had knelt and received Holy Communion on the tongue, which is how Pope Benedict XVI prefers to distribute Holy Communion. As I have pointed out, what happened looked quite awkward, and it is legitimate to wonder what went wrong. Was the Queen unable to kneel for physical reasons? Didn't she know what to do? Was there a breakdown in communication? etc. All of these are, I think, legitimate questions, even though I doubt we'll get answers to them here on this forum anytime soon.

The real problem is when some bloggers choose to see the Queen's action as some kind of protest or deliberate disobedience to the wishes of the Holy Father. This, I think, is entirely speculative and quite unfair to Her Majesty.

The key thing, of course, is that we should all do our best to try to receive Holy Communion in a reverent manner while in a state of grace. And, perhaps it would be good if there were a general ban on filming or photographing anyone receiving Holy Communion?

It would help if some commentators had watched the footage and offered an explanation of why the Pope stopped so far away from the dais the Queen was on. They might have noted the flower display in front of the dais.

Some people dont know of royal dress protcols. The last time Queen Elizabeth went to the Vatican she wore a 3/4 length black dress and small black hat (not a State Visit). When making a 'state visit' to the Vatican on a previous occasion the Queen wore a long black dress with tiara and veil, plus various honours on her dress. The Queen of Spain is one of the european royals who has the right to where white when at the Papal Court.

I think the Pope and Queen Sophia handled the situation they found themselves in very well and the Mass went on smoothly, as it should.

I too saw the service at the Sagrada Familia and the Queen of Spain did not kneel but only bowed very low to receive in the hand.

This may have been for various reasons...

As Father Serge suggested, she may be of the age when this would be difficult (I didn't see if she kneeled during the rest of the service), or she may not be used to kneeling for the Sacrament and just did what was normal for her (and in this day and age for most people).

There is also the fact that the queen was raised Greek Orthodox and maybe for her standing is more natural.

I also noticed that the King and Queen's chairs and kneelers were placed on some kind of high platform and if she knelt her head would be higher than the Pope who would then have to reach up to place communion in her mouth.

Properly she should have come down, got in line and received communion from the Pope where he stood.

The Spanish bishops lead the Pope to the Queen before he went to his station.

Properly communion should not really be brought to anyone, but the people in humility should approach the Sacrament themselves of their own free will.

Garrett,

I have to admit, this comment made me chuckle - especially since it could be read 2 ways - either of which would have been apt.


or


Because, albeit you sometimes cause us to shake our heads, we do indeed love the traditional-leaning Latin whom we can remember from back when he first posted, as a 15 year old Methodist (long before he could point to a post count that is in the top dozen here ).

Many years, my friend.

Neil

PS - you might want to update your profile - it still has you back in your junior year of college

Neil,

Thanks for the laugh. My parents have both expressed some displeasure at my use of dangling participles. Guess I'm a slow learner!

In any case, although I meant this Byzantine forum, THE Byzantine Forum, is much-beloved by me, I appreciate your comment. And I'm thankful that I still have youth on my side to serve as a partial excuse for my ill-considered posts....

Alexis

P.S. I will update the profile!