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#35701 09/25/02 11:40 PM
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Jenny Offline OP
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I know this isn't news specific to Byzantine Christians, but I thought it was interesting.

God Bless,

Jenny

==
Turin Shroud may be genuine after all

By Uwe Siemon-Netto
UPI Religion Correspondent
From the Life & Mind Desk
Published 9/24/2002 2:42 PM

GURAT, France, Sept. 24 (UPI) -- The Turin Shroud bearing the features of a
crucified man may well be the cloth that enveloped the body of Christ, a
renowned textile historian told United Press International Tuesday.

Disputing inconclusive carbon-dating tests suggesting the shroud hailed from
medieval times, Swiss specialist Mechthild Flury-Lemberg said it could be
almost 2,000 years old.

Perhaps even more important is what Flury-Lemberg saw when she examined the
back of the shroud -- the first researcher ever to do so. While it bore
bloodstains, there were no mysterious marks comparable to those on the front
of the cloth.

These marks show an amazingly detailed picture of a bearded man who had been
beaten about the body, crowned with thorns and pierced with nails through
the wrists and the feet.

On the side of the body's outline there appeared to be an image of a wound,
which was perhaps the one caused by a Roman soldier's spear when he tried to
find out if the crucified Jesus was alive or dead (John 19:34).

It was to this fist-sized wound the resurrected Jesus guided the apostle
Thomas' fingers, whereupon this doubting disciple explained, "My Lord, my
God!" (John 20:28).

Flury-Lemberg, a Hamburg-born scholar now living in Berne, Switzerland, did
preservation work on the shroud this summer. She said the outline of the
body looked somewhat like burn marks, but only in the top 2 millimeters of
the cloth.

Some theologians believe this may have occurred as Christ's body exited the
shroud during his resurrection. Flury-Lemberg was quick to point out,
though, this could never be scientifically proven. The same applied to the
question if the tortured and crucified man buried in the shroud was Jesus.

Flury-Lemberg investigated the cloth this summer as she separated it in from
the Dutch linen cloistered nuns in Chamb�ry in Savoy had sewn it to after a
fire in 1534.

She explained the linen's progressing oxidization had been endangering the
shroud. As she separated the two textiles, she removed "spoonfuls of soot."
She cleaned the shroud before it was sewn to a new cloth.

Pollen analysis and the shroud's measurements suggested it originated in the
Middle East and not in medieval Europe. Flury-Lemberg described its quality
as "stunningly noble, with an almost invisible seam."

She related she discovered identical forms of weaving and high-quality
sewing on textiles found at Masada, the ancient fortress in southeastern
Israel. They hailed from the year 73 AD.

According to the Berne scholar, other first-century cloths found in the Red
Sea region showed weaving patterns similar to those of the Turin Shroud.

"All these things are mosaics that don't prove anything scientifically," she
insisted.

"However, this cloth left a radiant expression on me," Flury-Lemberg told
UPI. She made it clear she was not a Roman Catholic but a Lutheran, "but
this shroud is not just a Catholic relic but a treasure of all Christendom."

She said regardless of this impression, she has had to work on the Shroud
dispassionately "like a surgeon operating on his own wife."

Flury-Lemberg questioned the relevance of findings by other researchers who
discovered pollen and dust traceable to the Middle Ages on the cloth.

"Of course it had such particles on it," she said, "after all, the Shroud
was exhibited a great deal in those days."

Historian Karlheinz Dietz of Wuerzburg University in Germany shares
Flury-Lemberg's doubts of the 1988 carbon-dating results claiming that the
cloth was made between 1260 and 1290.

In an interview with the Germany daily, Die Welt, he stated, "If you believe
that the cloth hails from the Middle Ages then you must also believe that a
man looking exactly like Jesus ... was whipped, crowned with thorns,
crucified and then placed on linen imported from the Middle East and
sprinkled with aloe and myrrh, and that on top of all he had invented
monumental photography."

Dietz was referring to the discovery of the Christ-like image by Italian
photographer Secundo Pia in 1889.

"On the Shroud we see a genuine 'photography' that originated long before
photography was invented," Dietz said.

Scientists can't say what might have caused this ancient "photography" of a
Christ-like figure. Many Catholic and Protestant theologians do not doubt,
though, it was the Resurrection. If it was that, test results show it must
have occurred no later than 36 hours after the dead man's bloody body had
been wrapped in this expensive shroud.

This too, corresponds to the Biblical narrative.

Copyright � 2002 United Press International

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20020924-122802-9689r

#35702 09/26/02 07:58 AM
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Dear Jenny,

You are wrong, this is news specific to Byzantine Christians. Did you know that some scholards think that Turin Shroud was stolen from Constantinople by Western Europeans during the 4th crusade? Although some scholards do not agree, as Archimandrite Robert Taft S.I(Rome) the shroud paid an important role in Byzantine rite history and, specially, in the evolution of Byzantine Holy Week rites (use of the Epitaphios during Good Friday and Holy Saturday services).

#35703 09/26/02 12:39 PM
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Dear Francisco,

Actually, Jenny is right.

The Shroud has been venerated in the East for centuries before "crusaders" (they really should be called "sword-bearers") took it westwards.

Before the Epitaphios came to be honoured in the East, a late liturgical development, the Holy Napkin with the Face of Christ was highly venerated in the East.

Some say that the "Holy Napkin" is in reality the Shroud, folded four times to reveal the Face of Christ only.

Copies of the Shroud of Turin in the form of Epitaphia or Plaschanytsia are being venerated in the Orthodox Church more frequently.

Alex

#35704 09/26/02 02:37 PM
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Yes, it does have interest for Byzantine Catholics and Orthodox alike. If your church or any church has a painting or mosaic of Christus Procrantor you will see many similarities between the face of the Shroud and the face of Christ. (One is the lisp of hair hanging down over the forehead). According to police policies, the number of identifying marks would be enough to arrest a person.

#35705 09/26/02 02:45 PM
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Dear Mike,

Scientists actually consulted with Orthodox Jewish scholars to determine if the way the Man depicted on the Shroud had His Hair arranged in the way that Jews would have.

They examined the back of the Shroud and concluded that that is exactly the way observant male Jews would arrange their hair which is also similar to the way traditional Orthodox clerics would as well.

Another fascinating thing is that this is one of the few relics that the medieval Church considered to be "bogus" but that the modern scientific community, or at least a growing following, is determining to be authentic.

There is no reason why the Shroud could not be venerated as authentic.

It is in the possession of an ancient Templar family, that of Geoffroi de Chancey, whose uncle, also Geoffroi, was arrested with other Templars on Friday, October 13.

This is where the superstition governing the unlucky "Friday the 13th" comes from.

Alex

#35706 09/26/02 04:17 PM
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Dear Friends:

The news originally posted by Jenny above is an after-the-fact personal account of the Swiss cloth expert who spearheaded the secret restoration project last summer of the Holy Shroud with the permission of the Vatican.

The restoration included the removal of the triangular patches and the backing "Holland cloth" sewn onto the Shroud by the Poor Clare nuns in 1534 after a fire partially destroyed the relic.

There are scholarly tracts that suggest that parts of the sample used in the 1988 carbon-dating test was inadvertently taken from one of the triangular patches, which when tested showed the medieval origins of the Shroud.

The news of the completed restoration project was issued by Severino Cardinal Poletto, the Archbishop of Turin, on September 22, 2002.

Like many others, non-Catholic and non-Christians alike, Lutheran Swiss scientist Mechtild Flury-Lemberg must have been convinced of the relic's authenticity after viewing it up close and personal.

Barrie M. Schwortz, the "Official Documenting Photgrapher" for the Shroud of Turin Research Project, Inc. (STURP) is another who believes in the authenticity of the Shroud because he says he knows "the unbiased facts." Mr. Schwortz is a Jew.

Many scientists have made their own studies of the available samples and concluded that the Shroud's age goes back to the 1st century A.D.

(Did you know that some of the original members of the STURP, which declared the Shroud as a fraud, have died mysteriously in their sleep?)

Interestingly, the Catholic Church has not issued any official stance on this authenticity issue, leaving it to scientists to agree, or to argue, among themselves for appropriate answers.

When His Holiness last visited the relic in May 1998, Pope John Paul II was quoted as saying that "[w]hat really counts for believers is that the Holy Shroud is a mirror of the Gospel. . . that there is a convergence between the Gospel narrative and the image of the man on the cloth."

Many believe, as I do, that if the Shroud is authentic, it is the holiest existing Christian relic there is.

AmdG

#35707 09/26/02 04:20 PM
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Dear Amado,

Actually, the Eucharistic Miracles are even holier!

There are greater Eucharistic Miracles in history and currently occurring than with any other relics or icons.

And we can experience such a great miracle at every Liturgy/Mass and whenever we walk into a Church.

As one saint said, after being asked what he was doing so long in church, "I'm looking at Him, and He's looking at me."

Alex

#35708 09/26/02 04:49 PM
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STURP did not declare the Shroud a fraud.

Sharon

#35709 09/26/02 05:34 PM
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#35710 09/26/02 05:43 PM
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Dear Sharon:

Sorry for my previous statement that the "STURP, which declared the Shroud as fraud". It is equivocal.

But this much I can say. In the publication of the official results of the radio carbon dating, it declared that the results "provide conclusive evidence that the linen of the Shroud of Turin is medieval".

This led to a media frenzy in which headlined throughout the world, led by "The Sunday Times" (London) with a front-page story "Official: The Turin Shroud is a Fake."

Other papers called the Shroud a "Medieval forgery!"

AmdG

#35711 09/26/02 05:53 PM
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Alex:

I disagree.

Among extant relics, The Shroud of Turin could be the holiest.

The numerous documented Eucharistic Miracles we have are clearly that: miracles! They are a level beyond. They are not "relics" in this sense.

Miracles are of divine origin which are, of themselves, very, very, very holy.

I agree, the Eucharistic Miracles are currently the holiest of God's manifestations.

AmdG

#35712 09/26/02 05:58 PM
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Dear Amado.

You are right, after all . . .

Alex

#35713 09/27/02 06:20 PM
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Two points:

1. The fire in the Middle Ages has affected the carbon dating and is what gives the carbon dating to be from the Middle Ages.

2. The Shroud shows Our Lord was 5'11" and weighed about 170 pounds.

P.S. -- I believe it is the burial shroud of Our Lord.

#35714 09/27/02 06:55 PM
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Personally, I do not doubt the authenticity of the Shroud, but just out of curiosity and playing devil's advocate (haha wow, that saying is really relevant to this topic...) isn't 5'11'' and 170 lbs. VERY large for a Semetic man 2,000 years ago?

ChristTeen287

#35715 09/27/02 08:12 PM
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Dear ChristTeen,

Was it Josephus or someone writing at that time who said that Christ was indeed taller than most men of His day and that His bearing inspired awe in all who saw Him.

Those who saw Him and who loved Him also experienced something like a "fear" of Him.

In any event, His physical bearing obviously commanded respect and He towered over others.

Alex

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