www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Renouncing artistic/creative gifts for the sake of humility?

Just curious. Would it be acceptable to give up using a certain gift or talent that one has if it's a potential danger to humility? For instance, if someone had a lot of talent in pop/rock songwriting and had the opportunity to use it for good, but was tempted by vanity and vainglory?

God gives us talents & gifts so that we can use them for His glory and for the good of our respective communities.

I doubt that in this life, so long as we have the use of reason, we can ever be completely free of temptations. Life in Christ involves struggle. I wish it didn't but it does.

The motive for renouncing thus-and-such might be so that the one who renounces might derive some perverse gratification by appearing superior, holier, humbler than other people. Now THERE'S vainglory for ya. Denying that one has certain talents/gifts might be insulting to God Who bestowed them and such denial could be yet another example of vanity.

A talented, gifted person in these circumstances would do well to seek guidance from a competent spiritual mother/father.

I guess what got me questioning about the place of performing arts/entertainment in the spiritual life is what I constantly read in the Fathers about avoiding occasions of vainglory like the plague. Like this for example:

"Earthly occupations, when a monk devotes himself to them with enthusiasm, even without obvious sins, are quite capable of depriving him of success and progress and of desolating his unfortunate soul. Such a soul becomes an abode of demons...
In these occupations attachment imperceptibly creeps in...Then the monk devotes all his powers of soul and body to the work... Meanwhile the snake tries to make the monk imagine that his occupation is innocent, even soul-saving and generally useful... praises and approbations for his work begin to reach the monk's ears from all sides... He acts under the full control of the fallen spirit. "
-Ignatius Brianchaninov

That's pretty terrifying! Yet I also can see your points above about neglecting a gift God has given a person. Seems like walking a tightrope!

As you said though, if one could be under the care of a spiritual father in such a case, it might help. But still scary.

Desertman:

Christ is in our midst!!

Before we unquestioningly take advice given to the formation of a monk, I think it would be best to explore this area with one's spiritual father. While much of today's "rock" music isn't all that edifying for the Christian, there is a part of this genre that has it's focus on Christ and drawing young people to Him through its use. So take your discernment process to your spiritual father, Place the matter in his hands, pray about what your motives are, and be at peace.

May I add that the Desert Fathers tell us that when we offend anyone who gives us a gift, we offend Christ. How much more, then, do we offend Him when it is He that has given us the gift?

Bob

Most of us are not monks, so I am not sure the advice given would apply. However, I would think that if God gives someone a gift, He expects it to be used for His purposes.

Be careful in blindly following the advice of 'Holy Elders', do not take all that they may say or publish at face value as not all are 'holy' or in touch with the true teachings of the Faith (Orthodox or Catholic as the case may be.) Rely on your pastor for spiritual guidance. And...I agree with byzanTN on the issue of talents.

Sit next to the cantor and help him out- listening to the Troparions and helping with REAL music will inspire you and keep you grounded in God's will.

if I were a monk- that is the advice I would give you :0

I keep thinking of the parable of the talents as this thread continues . .. ..

There's been some good advice so far about seeking guidance from a spiritual father, but I'm still a bit surprised that everyone seems to have a similar opinion. I don't quite understand how neglecting to use what some might call a "worldly" talent in order to purify oneself from ego could be insulting to God. Isn't the desire to renounce everything that could be an obstacle to holiness a gift as well?

In the parable of the talents, I think the Fathers' interpretation is that Jesus was speaking of God's gift of grace - that those who cooperate with grace will receive more, while those who neglect it will lose even what little they've been given. I don't think He was referring to natural talents.

P.S. Thank you for the responses!

desertman:

Christ is in our midst!!

You seem to have some sort of Calvinist attitude twoard some of your talents. All your talents come from God and He makes nothing that is not good. To pretend to separate talents into two parts--spiritual, good; fleshly/worldly, bad--is an insult to the Giver. All that you have, all that you are, all that you have been given, all that you will ever be, all the developed talents you will have at the end of your pilgrimage are God's gift to you. The Gospel tells us not to bury our talents in the earth. And taking the symbol of earth from Genesis--that we were formed fromt he dust of the earth--we are given to understand that burying our talents in the earth can mean that we know we have them and just let them stay undeveloped inside us. To me that's a waste.

Don't waste.

Bob

I would submit that the ability to sing in and of itself is not a danger to humility, any more so than the ability to run fast or design light bulbs.

I don't think it is the talent that has you worried, but rather your response to potential success.

If your acts are for your own glory, then what you fear would likely come true. So long as they are for God's, He will honor it.

But that same danger lies in a cantor who prides himself on his beautiful voice and loves listening to himself sing every Sunday.

God gives talents for the glory of His kingdom!

Just remember this scripture, (below) pray for discernment and, as others have shared it is good to seek mature Christian counsel from another.

"He has showed you, O man, what is
good;
and what does the LORD require
of you
but to do justice, and to love
kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God?" (Micah 6:8) (RSV)

Thanks again to all who've posted on this thread - you've been a great help!