www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology "no dead blood at the altar"???

I've already recommended Fitzgerald. I'm leery of the St. Nina people--they have an agenda. Fitzgerald is a reputable scholar; Karras is something of a feminist in the not good sense of the word.

Fr Deacon David,

Very interesting, and a point of view which we don't read about. In my mind the information offered in this thread and on the referenced website eases much of the doubt regarding male AND female ordination to the minor order of Lector/Candle Bearer.I believe this would strengthen the vitality of our Churches.

As to the ordination of women deacons, I defer to others at this time.

Fr Deacon Paul

As I tried to intimate, the St. Nina gals are not the most objective scholars in the world, and at the end of the day they fall squarely into the "ordain women to the priesthood" crowd. I recommend approaching all of their materials with caution and a large grain of salt.

this is all a very interesting discussion if you consider what was talked about regarding female altar servers in the Ukrainian Greek Cathaolic Church.

For those who were/are against female altar servers;
If deaconesses are good enough, then shouldn't female altar servers be?
I'm just sayin', that's all....

Yes, God forbid we have girls serving at the altar, they may then want to become priests!!!

like the deaconess, perhaps?
After the meaning of διάκονος is servant.

Pavloosh...I am still trying to find out how we got from "no dead blood at the altar" to altar girls and deaconesses. Nobody has cited the actual canon about "dead blood" yet. Oh well, I am enjoying the exchange.

Faulty logic.

More faulty logic. Seems to be an epidemic of that going around.

Stuart, because you say, does not automatically make it so.

Not automatically, no more than something is automatically infallible when the Pope speaks ex Cathedra.

But it's foolish to vote against me.

How is that faulty logic, when you dealing with what alter girls might want to do?

1. While most priests at some point served as altar boys, very few altar boys become priests.

2. While some girls might serve at the altar (illicitly, in the case of Greek Catholic parishes), only an infinitesimal percentage of them might ever harbor a hankering to be ordained.

My objection to girl altar boys is two-fold:

1. On principle, the Byzantine Churches have never allowed any women--not even deaconesses--to serve at the altar (one possible exception being female monasteries).

2. Pragmatically, it is a proven fact that the participation of women in what were previously seen as male professions drives away men (which is why, once upon a time, one did not have to say "male nurse"). Most studies have shown the tipping point is about 15% female penetration. Altar boys are at an age where they are looking for uniquely male things to do, in order to assert their masculinity. In a Church already excessively feminized, serving at the altar provides that opportunity. Allowing girls in will merely make it one more mixed activity, resulting in reduced participation by boys.

"Altar boys are at an age where they are looking for uniquely male things to do, in order to assert their masculinity. In a Church already excessively feminized, serving at the altar provides that opportunity. Allowing girls in will merely make it one more mixed activity, resulting in reduced participation by boys." I agree!! But I wonder, and try to find some numbers of the percentage of priests who were alter boys