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Bless me a sinner, Father Silouan,

Although I'm not an American, I sympathize greatly and I believe that when this matter is over with, it will be recognized that the U.S. did the right thing.

And some U.S. Catholic bishops should come to realize that the Vietnam war is over with and they are faced with another situation that requires something more than the tired protests of anti-war peaceniks of yesteryear.

I remember reading a Catholic theologian way back when who said that religious and moral values are ideals we try to pattern our lives on, but which we put aside when we see a child being beaten by an adult assailant, and we pick up a bat . . .

Dear Cantor Joe,

I agree!

Alex

Bless me a sinner, Father Silouan,

Although I'm not an American, I sympathize greatly and I believe that when this matter is over with, it will be recognized that the U.S. did the right thing.

And some U.S. Catholic bishops should come to realize that the Vietnam war is over with and they are faced with another situation that requires something more than the tired protests of anti-war peaceniks of yesteryear.

I remember reading a Catholic theologian way back when who said that religious and moral values are ideals we try to pattern our lives on, but which we put aside when we see a child being beaten by an adult assailant, and we pick up a bat . . .

Dear Cantor Joe,

I agree!

Alex

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Dear Cantor Joseph,

Yes, it is all sad and interesting at once!

Not that such "anti-war" protesters are for peace, mind you.

They have no problem with World War II (apart from Dr. John, but even he isn't exactly pacifist when it comes to the Turks! ).

As long as the West is fighting right-wing fascism - then war is an absolute necessity for these Marxist protesters.

But left-wing or other forms of fascism - now that's another story.

In that case, we need U.N. resolutions, world approval, ask the Pope and the Bishops for permission etc.

Ultimately, I don't believe that the protesters against the Bush Administration have really thought this through, apart from the armchair theologians and moral philosophers and their name is "Legion."

This is an opportunity to be seen to be "anti-establishment" and to stretch out one's radical left wings that have remained dormant for so long a time in a period of enforced irrelevance.

But I don't believe that the Bush Administration should get top "A's" for its public relations handling of this situation either.

But a Republican government always has a tougher sell job in these matters than any Democratic government would.

If Bill Clinton was still the President and decided to go into Iraq, he wouldn't even need the U.N. to pat him on the back - the press would be doing that immediately.

The real hero in all this, I believe, is the British Prime Minister.

Blair is single-handedly pursuing a consistent foreign policy that is unpopular with his own government and party.

Yet, he remains firmly committed, even in the face of European opposition.

I don't know if a Conservative PM would have that kind of "Thrassos" that Blair has.

He deserves to be re-elected in Britain and he deserves to be honoured for his moral fibre.

Alex

Dear Alex and Joe,

This thread was started on the topic of the Lenten message of His Grace, John Michael Botean. I would like to ask if your consider your comments about "some Catholic Bishops", "peaceniks", "Marxists", "World Workers Party", etc. as being off topic (not that there's anything wrong with that) or on topic.

Dear djs,

I think these are "on topic."

Whenever a bishop would like to speak about world affairs and critique them, he and his episcopal colleagues must be willing to undergo a similar critique by others - especially since they are outside their normal area of expertise.

If they can't take the heat, so to speak, they should stay out of the kitchen.

If what Cantor Joseph, Father Silouan and I are saying here is off topic, you are free to contact the Moderator/Administrator and ask that our comments be moved to another thread.

Alex

Hello:

I think that we have basically two different points of view:

Those who, like Bishop John Michael see this war as mass murder and those who, like President Bush see it as a legitimate act of self-defense.

My own position is that, if what President Bush said last night is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then he would be correct in his evaluation of Hussein as a threat that needs to be dealt with.

However, I seriously doubt that the condition is met. I have a very good degree of certitude that what we heard last night was not the whole truth. President Bush avoided talking about the other agenda, the oily agenda of this war, and he also failed to mention his own personal desire for retrubution against a character he considers a family enemy.

And then in remains to be seen if what he told the American people is indeed the truth. At this point, the only way to show the world evidence of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction would be their use against the US forces or their allies.

As soon as US troops invade Iraq, the integrity of the "crime scene" is compromised and all "evidence" of such weapons "found" thereafter becomes suspect.

Applying American criminal prosecution principles, Iraq is to be considered innocent of now having and be willing to use WMDs until the contrary is demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt.

Meanwhile I will follow my Church in our prayer and effort for peace, and I will join my voice to those who, like Bishop John Michale, think this war is wrong.

May the Lord God have mercy on us all.

Shalom,
Memo.

Dear Memo,

Thank you for allowing those of us who disagree with you the right to express our view here!

My only point is that Bishops have lost their moral stature to pronounce on anything like this.

That is a good thing because now it is up to argumentation to make the points (not that they will influence what is going to happen anyway) rather than everyone cringing before the statements of clerics in robes simply because they are clerics in robes.

That this Bishop would use Lent as a way to convey his own personal political views on these matters is, from my own POV, disgusting.

The Catholic Church has already had to answer for its bishops who, in conflicts past, have taken positions which proved to be unpopular and for which the Church has had to apologise.

Apart from a general call for peace, the Church shouldn't be mixing religion and politics.

If bishops, such as this one, want to follow that course, they may just find more criticism of them out there from there own flock than even they expected, mitres notwithstanding.

Alex

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Dear Cantor Joseph,

The Chaldeans are, as you know, between a rock and a hard place in this matter.

Publicly, they can say very little in North America, as the regime in Iraq will hear it and is not afraid to act in response to it against the Assyrians and the Chaldeans.

But how does this bishop know that support for this war is sinful?

To quote St Thomas More during his trial, "Yes, it is a matter capable of question."

I would respectfully suggest that this bishop, in using Lent and the Church's authority, to promote his own views on this issue has overstepped his episcopal boundaries and should probably be censured by the U.S. Bishops' Conference, if there is any accountability left in that once credible body.

Alex

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It is this comment that is off the wall that bothers me the most.

To say that if I support my country and its soldiers that I am in mortal sin?

Also, isn't this guy an eastern bishop? Where is the idea of mortal sin in eastern thought?

There is no such thing as a "just" war. War is war.

Here is the Lenten Message from Bishop John Elya of the Melkite Greek Catholic Church. Must better in my opinion. It touches on the political realm with out being political in nature, again, IMHO.


David

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I am certainly NOT the most politically astute person on this Forum but I am always baffled as to why, when the NCCB issues a Letter to the Faithful, it is full of peace and social justice issues. Where is Bishop Botean's letter that instructs his faithful to become holy even as the Father in Heaven is holy? Rarely, if ever, is there mention of the quest for holiness. Of course peace and social justice issues are very important. However I am very tired of hearing about the "Preferential option for the poor". I gladly give the little that I have to the poor, especially to those priests in the Catholic Underground in China who are almost litteraly starving to death in order to be faithful to the Holy Church. The only reason for fasting is NOT so that I can give my few dollars to the poor. It is a means of purification from my many sins and to raise me to a new and more intimate relationship with my Father in Heaven. I give what alms I can to alleviate the suffering of so many of God's poor. God commands that I fast, pray and give alms. Somehow it seems that the "pray" part is lost amongst all the social concern issues. Silouan, a financially challenged old monk +