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Dec 29th, 2019
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What can be done to save our church from the unnecessary and unneeded changes in the Divine Liturgy and the music?  Do our bishops care at all that these changes are destructive and could kill our church once and for all? Our church is already dying. We have more funerals than baptisms. Are the bishops trying to kills us quicker? The new and horrible Divine Liturgy is already used at the cathedral and people are leaving there for other parishes. Some have given up and just joined St. Teresa�s Roman Catholic Church. What does that say about the changes in liturgy and the cantoring at the cathedral? This is maddness! Why did they hire someone who is a life long Roman Catholic who has no experience cantoring in our church to rewrite our music and make it sound like Roman Catholic music? How can they mandate these chanes without even testing them in the parishes? Our priests are refusing to send people to the so-called �Cantors Institute�. Good for them! What does this say about the people running this institute? One priest (not my pastor) told me that the new liturgy will be mandated on September 1 in all parishes nationwide and will make its debut at the Uniontown Pilgrimage. We need to band together to oppose these changes! Write to your local bishop and let him know that we do not need a new liturgy or new music. You should also send a complaint to Bishop Andrew Pataki of Passaic since he is the head of the liturgy commission and the one supporting the reformation of our liturgy: Metropolitan Archeparchy of Pittsburgh His Eminence, Most Rev. Archbishop Basil Schott, OFM, DD Chancery Office 66 Riverview AV Pittsburgh, PA 15214-2253 Phone: 412-231-4000 Fax: 412-231-1697 Eparchy of Passaic His Grace, Bishop Andrew J. Pataki, J.C.L., D.D. Chancery Office 445 Lackawanna Avenue West Paterson, NJ 07424 Phone: 973-890-7777 Fax: 973-890-7175 Eparchy of Parma His Grace, Bishop John M. Kudrick Chancery Office 1900 Carlton Rd. Parma, OH 44134-3129 Phone: 216-741-8773 Fax: 216-742-9356 Eparchy of Van Nuys His Grace, Bishop William Charles Skurla, Chancery Office 8105 North 16th Street Phoenix, AZ 85020 Phone: 602-861-9778 Fax: 602-861-9796 You need to act now to save our beloved Byzantine Catholic Church!!!
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For those supposedly leaving for the neartest RC parish, are they really supporting our church?
Please tell us what you think is wrong with our liturgy. I haven't a clue what the hair-raising fear-mongering is all about. Have Satanic verses been inserted?
I know a lot of Byzantine Catholic parishes that would close if it wasn't for the kindness of Latin priests with bi-ritual faculties. Should they leave too? The only active parishioners in my parish and who are happy to be there are former Latins and converts. The cradles have mostly disappeared. Nobody taught them what it really meant to support one's church.
If you want Rusyn ethnic or cradle Byzantine Catholics, then make your rounds to all the Latin parishes in your area who left for decades before there was any liturgical commission. Then we can see what we can do.
I have news for you. What is many times "new" to Pittsburgh has already seen the light of day in other eparchies. Are half of your temples still geared up for Latin Tridentine High Masses? If so, what is there to save?
Who are these priests you keep telling us about? Please state their names and articulate what their concerns are. Inquiring minds want to know.
Joe
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Joe you do not know what you are talking about. People are being driven away because the liturgy is sooooo bad! Do you really think people will stick around when the liturgical changes and music are so horrible?
I want the liturgy we had when I was young but in English. It was vibrant and the people sung it well. It is the same liturgy that is in the pew book. I want the litanies including the ones with the Grant it o Lord�s in them. I want good singing with music people can actually sing, not a reworking of our music to make it sound like Roman Catholic music.
I have nothing against Roman Catholics and many in my family are Roman Catholics. I don�t see any reason for us to imitate them in our liturgy and music. We complain about the latinizations we were forced to endure in the past. Why are we embracing more of them?
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I keep hearing about all these changes that are supposedly coming to the Byzantine liturgy, but so far no one has given me any specific examples of what exactly has changed.
Perhaps you could provide just one example of what you think is going to drive people away? Thanks!
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Say goodbye to this thread...
Anyway, what kind of committed Byzantine Catholic leaves his/her parish for the closest Latin parish? If they were truly committed to being Byzantine Catholic and not just comfortable, they would:
1) Work for positive change in their own parish; or
2) Find another Byzantine Catholic parish, if possible (even if it were -- gasp! -- Ukrainian or some other sort); or
3) Preserve their Byzantine Christian identity by seeking solace in an Orthodox parish.
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Originally posted by Lemko Rusyn:
Say goodbye to this thread...
? Uh, could I get an answer to my question before we say goodbye? Seriously, I would really like to know. Thanks!
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Originally posted by Theist Gal:
I keep hearing about all these changes that are supposedly coming to the Byzantine liturgy, but so far no one has given me any specific examples of what exactly has changed.
Perhaps you could provide just one example of what you think is going to drive people away? Thanks! The litanies are mostly gone and all the silent prayers are now said out loud. I know that that is Father Petras� doing since he says he hates litanies and wants them gone from the liturgy. It really changes the feel of the liturgy when the priest has to stop and take a long pray out loud. It is much more like a Roman Catholic Mass than like a Byzantine Liturgy. Plus the music and translations have all been changed. The music is very different and sounds more like the old Latin chant then it does like our Carpatho-Rusyn plainchant. I have heard from people that these changes are mostly implemented in the other dioceses and that people there are upset about them. The problem is that our people don�t fight. They just give up in disgust and leave.
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Originally posted by Lemko Rusyn:
Say goodbye to this thread...
Anyway, what kind of committed Byzantine Catholic leaves his/her parish for the closest Latin parish? If they were truly committed to being Byzantine Catholic and not just comfortable, they would:
1) Work for positive change in their own parish; or
2) Find another Byzantine Catholic parish, if possible (even if it were -- gasp! -- Ukrainian or some other sort); or
3) Preserve their Byzantine Christian identity by seeking solace in an Orthodox parish. Lemko Rusyn, 1) The people are not part of these changes and it has been made clear to us by those supporting the changes that we are too stupid to know what is good for us. Even most of the priests are excluded from what's going on. 2) What other Byzantine Catholic parishes can we go to? The Ukrainians take everything in Ukrainian or recite the liturgy when it is in English. Is this really any better? 3) You know that most of our people would not join an Orthodox parish. Memories of the spilt still run very deep.
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Originally posted by Concerned Byzantine: [QUOTE]It is much more like a Roman Catholic Mass than like a Byzantine Liturgy. Gadzooks ... the ultimate insult! :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Theist Gal: Originally posted by Concerned Byzantine: [b] [QUOTE]It is much more like a Roman Catholic Mass than like a Byzantine Liturgy. It's not meant to be an insult to Roman Catholics. If I wanted a Roman Catholic Mass I can go to a Roman Catholic Church. We should not be reinventing our Byzantine Liturgy to make it resemble a Roman Catholic Mass.
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Well, I will have to see it (and hear it) to believe that the changes are not only so drastic, but so distasteful, as to drive anyone away. It can't possibly be any worse than the "Star-Spangled Mass" I was forced to attend this past 4th of July (church's name hidden to protect the guilty!).  By the way, I came across a thread on CINEast discussing this subject in great detail -- back in 1998! So it's obviously not something that's just now being forced on the unsuspecting Byzantine Catholics of the world.
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//The litanies are mostly gone and all the silent prayers are now said out loud. I know that that is Father Petras� doing since he says he hates litanies and wants them gone from the liturgy. It really changes the feel of the liturgy when the priest has to stop and take a long pray out loud. It is much more like a Roman Catholic Mass than like a Byzantine Liturgy.//
What exactly is the liturgy if one cannot hear the prayers? a Novena?
BTW, do you remember when the public prayers became silent?
Do you guys folks use kneelers and include the Filioque?
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Originally posted by Theist Gal:
By the way, I came across a thread on CINEast discussing this subject in great detail -- back in 1998! So it's obviously not something that's just now being forced on the unsuspecting Byzantine Catholics of the world. TG, Some of us have promulgated liturgies and follow our bishops. We move on. We haven't used green or gray "pew" books (with High Mass notes and directions when to kneel) from ages unto ages. Joe
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Greetings all, Sometimes I am amazed at the comments I hear about the changes in the music. I am looking forward to it, I'd like to see what it's all about. I think any congregation worth it's salt will handle it well, I am sure mine will. And if it needs a bit of adjusting that will come in time. After all, there would always be an adjustment period with anything “new”. That doesn't make it undesireable or incorrect. It doesn't have to be a disaster! Do I speak too soon? Maybe, but nothing that happens is unchangeable and no one enters into this with bad motives. Everyone involved cares very deeply about the church and make great sacrifices for it.  I guess the difference with me is that I left the comfort zone to join the Byzantine church, I am always learning something new and each new season brings me great satisfaction. I finally belong to a church I can commit myself to, and believe me I do , I am more active with my parish than I have ever been in my life. I am so happy I could be two people!  I have great confidence in the decisions of the church regarding these matters. Let's give them a little credit! In Christ, Michael
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