www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Interesting piece on NPR on woman priests in the RCC

The following story appeared on NPR; since I have no dog in the fight, I have no opinion one way or the other except to say that i found the story interesting.

http://www.npr.org/2011/06/12/137102746/women-priests-defy-the-church-at-the-altar?ps=cprs

Ah, how cute! The girls are having a costume party and playing church.

Ordinatio Sacerdotalis [vatican.va] makes it very clear that the Catholic Church does not have the power to ordain women. Both the one who attempts to ordain a woman and the woman who attempts to be ordained are automatically excommunicated [press.catholica.va].

I would ask these "bishops" and women to please stop calling themselves "Roman Catholics."

I agree wholeheartedly with Phil Lawler's comments [catholicculture.org], in which he points out "several" "flagrant departures from ordinary journalistic standards" in the report.

Ordinatio sacerdotalis was rather weak-kneed, another appeal to authority--or rather the lack thereof. Certainly, the Church can do better in expressing why the presbyteral ministry has always been reserved for men, an explanation that will be both internally and externally consistent, as well as intellectually and spiritually convincing. Until such time as the Church decides to address this issue with the firepower it once directed against Arianism, the matter will remain open in the minds of many, especially those for whom the "because I said so" (or, more precisely, "because I said I can't") approach does not work.

Meanwhile, I will just laugh at such deluded women because they are, well, silly.

I agree that it would be good to have the arguments against the ordination of women worked out in more depth and detail, so as to convince as many as possible. But at least the position of the Catholic Church on the ordination of women is clear and I think well-known.

I was driving home and listening to NPR. When I heard this report come on I turned it off. Anyone who would expect anything unbiased from NPR, and especially their weekend programing, about the Roman Catholic Church is either ignorant, naive or both. Interestingly, two stories before that one they had a story about an Episcopal Bishop of a diocese with 10 parishes in California authorizing the blessing of single sex unions. Any news source that spend five minutes on that story either doesn't have enough money to cover real news or is exhibiting its bias blatantly. In the case of NPR there is no doubt which it is.

So is the position of the Orthodox Church. So the critical question that needs to be asked is why don't you see Orthodox equivalents of "Womenpriests", even among those Orthodox women who believe that women should be ordained (there are a handful). The Catholic Church makes much of its "magisterium", but there seems to be a lot more diversity within the Catholic (specifically the Latin) Church on essential elements of doctrine. Perhaps reliance upon an extrinsic magisterium is no substitute for adherence to an intrinsic Tradition?

I think one of the reasons you don't see such movements in Orthodoxy is because the Orthodox Church has permitted open discussion of the issue, whereas the Vatican has attempted to suppress debate.

The issue of deaconesses is a live one within Orthodoxy, and there is quite open discussion of it.

You are generalizing too much. Also, you are creating a false dichotomy between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

The phenomenon of "Womenpriests" is found mainly in the German- and English-speaking world. We don't see much of it in the rest of Europe, Latin America, Africa or Asia. So, I would suggest that there are sociological reasons why we find "Womenpriests" mostly in Western Europe and North America. These reasons include, but are not limited to, gender theory, which doesn't recognize the proper balance between religious freedom and women's rights. If such sociological factors spread to traditionally Orthodox countries, you may find that the Orthodox Church is not immune to them.

Why do you completely ignore my comment that the theology here needs explored more fully? Why do you suppose that Tradition will convince "Womenpriests" anymore than the Magisterium? Why are you apparently trying to drive a wedge between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches on this issue, when for once there is something we agree upon? Why not instead suggest that Catholics and Orthodox together could search for answers to the question: why can only men become priests?

Catholics and Orthodox ought to work together to explore the doctrine and the Tradition regarding the male exclusivity of the presbyterate. The reason for my question is just this: since Catholic and Orthodox women are drawn from the same society, why do we not see Orthodox women dressing up as priests and pretending to celebrate the Divine Liturgy? These women are also exposed to "gender theory"--in fact, if your explanation is true, there should be even more "womenpriests" in countries like France, which has been in the forefront of gender theory and other intellectual fads.

The real reason you don't see such things in the traditional Catholic countries of Europe, I suspect, is nobody in those countries really cares one way or the other. Those who disagree with the Church just leave the Church, whereas in the United States, the Church still has some meaning.

But, back to brass tacks: all else being equal, there should be Orthodox "womenpriests" in the United States because the sociological background of Orthodox women is much the same as that of Roman Catholic women.

Stuart, assuming you are right, perhaps the reason why we do not see or hear about women priests in the OEC is that those who like the concept or who may be practicing women priests are more circumspect about the issue than some of their RCC brethren.

Rather than being simply silly, these our sisters are apparently tightly within the grasp of some kind of prelest from hell (is there any other kind?) Me, I don't think it's a bit funny but rather tragic. I find I respond to this issue much as I would after seeing the carnage of a plane crash.When I hear of stuff like this I don't know whether to laugh or cry...I reckon the best response I can make to this sorta thing is to pray, hand the situation and it's adherents all over to God and keep on going where I ought to be going.

Onward I lurch, stumble and grope...

Remember what somebody said about history repeating itself, first as tragedy then as farce. These ladies simply decided to skip to the end of the story.

I think it is more a difference in attitude, a recognition that to be Orthodox means accepting the total package, a package (the Tradition) that is not imposed from the outside but rather inwardly accepted. Those who find they can no longer assent to the Tradition don't try to say "the Tradition is wrong", or to impose their beliefs on the Tradition, but just accept that they can no longer be Orthodox.

In contrast, the very centralization and pyramidal structure of the Catholic Church seems to give dissidents a lot more leverage and encouragement. When they disagree with the magisterium, they can always say, "Well, this is something dreamed up by a self-serving hierarchy and imposed on an unwitting laity"--and the long history of clericalism in the Catholic Church gives that some credibility. The magisterium then ties itself up in knots trying to disprove a negative,