www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Abortion in Russia

According to the New York Times [nytimes.com] story, the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian government are working together to curtail the culture of abortion in Russia, which has had a catastrophic effect both on the spiritual and physical health of women, and on the Russian fertility rate. Interestingly, they seem to be taking a play out of the U.S. pro-life handbook.

One woman I knew from Russia that came to our church for a short while before they returned to Russia, had TEN abortions

I can't fathom how a woman can voluntarily put her body through that so many times (not to mention the soul and the psyche, but that is another story) It boggles the mind, really!

{I wonder: after having endured so many abortions, do unprotected sexual relations still appeal to these women? I am surprised that they do not embrace celibacy! }

Lord have mercy!!

During the nine years I lived in Bulgaria (1996-2005), a number of married women told me that they had had multiple abortions, and that this was extremely common. One woman told me she had had six, I think it was. They said that, under Communism, it was the main form of "birth control" that was available. I believe the same situation existed in Russia. It was both shocking and heartbreaking.

I taught at a language high school for a couple of years there. One year I taught a class on American culture for one of my older and more advanced English classes. They had asked me if we could read and discuss topics that were "controversial" in the US, so I had gathered articles from American magazines on various topics. Abortion was one of the topics I chose. When we started reading and discussing one of the articles, there was a lot of whispering going on, and I asked them what they were talking about. In all seriousness, they said, "We don't understand what's controversial about abortion. Why is this a problem in the United States?" I was stunned, to put it mildly. Their question said a lot about what happens when you are raised in a culture that had legislated atheism.

I forgot to say that this class was composed mainly of girls, about 20 girls and 2 boys. It was the girls who were asking the question. The year was 1997.

The Soviet govm't fostered what I'd characterise as an efficient and holistic approach to an utterly unwholesome life-style amongst the majority of its citizenry. No aspect of life was spared. Day-to-day life was a drudge and there was always the vague hint of exploitation of peoples' vulnerability. As is well know, spiritual realities were not only negated but belief in them led to ridicule and marginalization - to say nothing of possible trips to the police station, interrogation and dismal developments at work and/or school...it was a hellishly oppressive ambiance.

So it's no wonder there were so many abortions and nowadays, so many traumatised people. Abortion is one of the fruits of materialism. It'll take a long time for people to recover from all the pure evil they were forced to become involved in. Let's remember them all in prayer.

The general situation which prevailed in the totalitarian regimes of Soviet Union and Nazi Germany and its results are explored in the book "The Psychology of Extreme Traumatization: the Aftermath of Political Repression"

for a review go to http://lituanus.org/2008/08_4_09%20Gailiene.html

Except that the Nazis, with their eugenic orientation, outlawed abortion for those it considered "desirable" breeding stock, and enforced sterilization (or worse) on those they considered inferior. They encouraged Arian men and women to have as many children as possible, in or out of wedlock, and illegitimacy was not considered scandalous as long as your genes were right.

Within Romania, Nicholae Ceaucescu outlawed abortion and set about deliberately increasing the Romanian population from roughly 20 million to 26 million through bounties for large families combined with fines for childlessness. The plan worked--to a point. Economic development did not advance to match the increase in population, and parents increasingly abandoned children they could not feed at state orphanages, where they were subjected to brutality and systematic neglect.

After the fall of Ceaucescu, the Romanian population began to decrease rapidly due to migration and a massive decline in the fertility rate, which is only now returning to replacement levels.

Under Communism the general population did not hear these words from the First Kneeling Prayer of Pentecost Monday vespers:

Accept us who fall down before You, calling out, We have sinned! To you we have been committed from birth. From our mother's womb, You are our God!

It's consoling to know that some people did; and others, while perhaps unfamiliar with those exact blessed words, in some way knew it in their hearts, and struggled to make the best out of a bad situation.
cf. a wonderful book (I don't know if it's still in print): "Talking About God Is Dangerous: The Diary of a Russian Dissident" by Tatiana Goricheva ISBN 0-8245-0798-3

Sielos,

While out-of-print, used editions (including hardcover copis) - often in very good condition - can be had quite reasonably on Amazon, Abebooks, Alibris, and elsewhere.

Many years,

Neil

Let's get some perspective talking about multiple abortions here etc...because you know, people NEVER had abortions in America :P.

I think the truth is it has little to do with communism, but more to do with a society in which women have little ability to either refuse sex or expect appropriate financial contributions from men in their lives. The same thing has been true of many countries at many times, many of them nominally Christian. The coathanger method saw to many prospective children (and often their mothers) in Ireland, America, Australia and other such countries. It's very easy to express shock horror at these poor unenlightened people bedeviled by communism falling into these traps (and I sense somewhat of that tone in some posts), because they are not like us, but let's not forget our own history. And out present is nothing much different, just that D & C has replaced a piece of wire.

No doubt some individuals will suggest that everything I have said about our past (and present) situation being comparable to that in Russia is mere propaganda - let them say that. I prefer to confront the reality that abortion happened in the past when it was illegal, it happens now when it's legal, it happens in places that are communist and it happens in places that aren't. It is a problem that has confronted society for generations in every place and whether societies were Christian or not and it always will. Statements that communism leads to abortion are simplistic, inaccurate and not helpful in what is a difficult pastoral situation that will be around as long as people are having sex.

Let's get some perspective talking about multiple abortions here etc...because you know, people NEVER had abortions in America :P.

1. Never the way the do in Russia, or several other countries in Eastern Europe. Abortion has never been considered just a routine form of contraception, let alone the primary form of contraception. Bad as the situation is in the United States, in Russia, it has reached crisis proportions--as even the Russian government admits.

2. The point of the article I posted was just that: the situation in Russia is so bad that both the Russian Church and the Russian government have joined forces to change the entire culture of abortion in Russia, using tactics developed by pro-life organizations in the United States.

3. It has everything to do with communism, because communism fundamentally changed the culture of Russia in ways from which it has not yet recovered.

4. I don't know about Australia, but I do know about both Russia and the United States, and the people are very different. So is the culture.

5. In Russia, communism did lead to abortion, because the communists expected women to work, but did nothing to provide an environment conducive to the raising of children, but did not provide the population with any safe and reliable form of contraception--but did provide reasonably safe abortions free of charge. People respond to incentives and sanctions in rational ways.

6. In China, communism most certainly has led to widespread--indeed, coerced abortions in response to the one-child policy, with sex-selective abortion being so common that the ratio of male to female live births has reached an astoundingly unbalanced 1.24-to-1. This study [unfpa.org] provides details.

7. The story of Russia is repeated in just about every former communist country, including Ukraine, Belarus, and Bulgaria. The only real exception is Romania, for reasons I cited: Ceaucescu embarked on an enforced population expansion, the result of which was widespread abandonment of unwanted children, dumped into orphanages little better than concentration camps.

8. Ideas have consequences, and consequences of the idea of communism continue to fall out decades after communism itself has fallen.

Stuart, it grieves me beyond words that a lot of ethnic Lithuanians were involved with their Nazi cohorts & oppressors in the genocide of Jews.

What really hurts is that I have "litvak" ancestry...

Ever read "Once There Was A World..."? it's a very comprehensive and detailed historical portrait of the 900+ years of the shtetl of Eishyshok in eastern Lithuania, with graphic emphasis on the annihilation of its residents over a period of 2 days by the Nazi invaders. A few people managed to escape the carnage and tell the story.

God help us. Through the prayers of Bl. Pope John Paul 2,please heal our anguished collective and individual memories.

She could not stay here, it hurt her so much to hear what we think of abortions. She went back to Russia before her husband. She had a mental breakdown, and had to go to her mother. Her husband was very mournful, but tried hard to keep after the kids.

Interestingly enough, he had been a waiter in Russia, maybe well educated, but was here with the university doing/teaching/something like that about life in Russia under the Iron Curtain.

It seems to me - as an outside in this conversation - that Stuart and Otsheylnik are trying to get at slightly different things. Stuart wants to make the point that communism is/has the potential to be a uniquely destructive form of government/philosophy in regards to a Christian moral ethos in general and a Christian view of abortion in particular. Fair point. Otsheylnik wants to make the point that Russians are not uniquely genetically coded to be predisposed to being abortion-friendly, but rather that abortion has been practiced everywhere and by all types of people, and is a general societal problem. Also a fair point, and worth reminding ourselves (thank you, Otsheylnik).

If I am right (and I'm sorry if I'm off, fellas), I'd say the two points compliment each other. Abortion has and will always be a societal problem no matter the form of government under which it's practiced, and no matter the form of [dis/en]couragement that the State decides to take regarding abortion; still, one can see the uniquely deleterious effects that communism can have on a Christian moral ethos, using abortion in Russia as a prime example.

Bring up "Holy Russia" on this Forum and people seem to inevitably talk past each other (myself included).

Alexis

I would never speak of "Holy America", or "Holy Britain", or "Holy Anyplace Else", but for some reason people insist on speaking of "Holy Russia" despite that country's history over the past 1100 years. Curious indeed.

Well, Stuart, that's why I included the quotation marks. My attempt at a subtle joke. Perhaps this is not the proper Forum. Pun intended.

But to your point, yes of course calling it "Holy Russia" is silly. Just like calling that very unholy alliance of German principalities the "Holy Roman Empire." But at least that was the official-unofficial name.

One is Holy, One is Lord, Jesus Christ, to the glory of God the Father.

Alexis

Holey Russia is more like it!

This is so sad. I remember when I was in the high school (10th grade I think), I had an argue with two girls in my class about the abortions. Their view was that it's their right to decide whether to have or not to have abortion. This was in 2001 probably.

Right now in the Russian parliament there is a proposed law which would:
1. Institute a waiting period of 2-7 days.
2. Require prescription for "morning after" pill.
3. Require husbands to give consent to their wives abortions.
4. Banning free abortions at government clinics.
5. Requiring parental consent for minors.

It seems that the Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kyril is very involved in social issues, and that this legislative initiative is pushed by the Orthodox and conservative politicians.


I work for CBR Slovakia, a partner organization of the Center for Bioethical Reform. Amazingly to me, we have heard from Russian partners that they have been able to set up their pro-life displays of graphic abortion images on army bases with the blessing of the government.

A similar proposal concerning the right of father's to refuse to consent to abortion is being made by the "League of Fathers" in Slovakia, an organization which fights for the rights of divorced fathers, who are often marginalized by the divorce courts.

Alexis,

I knew you were being sardonic, but I know far too many others who are in deadly earnest.

Alice,

What really boggles the mind is how circumstances can come about--or be brought about--to make people that desperate. I once read an article in which the writer compared the woman seeking to abort with an animal caught in a claw trap who chews away its own limb in order to get free. In other words, she is aware of the harm she is doing to herself, but sees herself as having absolutely no choice. (And, let us not forget how societal expectations and peer pressure contribute to that desperation.)


I think societal expectations apply here, too.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

My mother had two, my grandmother - either one or two. I was Mom's third pregnancy, and she decided to keep me.

I pray that the culture of abortion in Russia is replaced by responsible and safe birth control.

MariyaNJ,

As a Catholic who believes in the Church's teaching that artificial birth is intrinsically evil, I could never pray for this intention. Studies have shown that the increased use of so-called "responsible and safe" contraceptives leads to more abortions.

Thanks for sharing. Please pray for what you will, and I will pray for what I will.