www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News UOC-MP Orthodox Archbishop of Lviv Meets Lefebvrist Abbot

Lviv � On 3 March 2006, Archbishop Auhustyn (Markevych) of Lviv and Halych received Fr. Michael Mary (Sim), superior of Golgotha Monastery in Scotland. The monks of this monastery follow the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and reject the decisions of the Second Vatican Council.

Fr. Michael Mary told Archbishop Auhustyn the history of the creation and the modern life of his church. They also discussed the situation in Ukraine. The Scottish monks were interested in the attitude of Orthodox Christians to other churches, in particular to the Catholic one, and if it is possible to establish a stable dialog between communities of two world religions.

Hierarch Augustine assured the guests that despite certain tensions in Ukrainian society caused by the coming parliamentary election, the religious situation in Ukraine will remain stable.

Sources: http://orthodoxy.org.ua/uk/node/1037

Having started to foster splits in the UGCC they probably have come to see how it is all going. Of course they call in on Archbishop Augustine who must have one of the smallest Orthodox Churches in the western part of Ukraine.

ICXC
NIKA

Some details from the website of those who are in oppostion to HB Cardinal Husar. Sadly, it is not just the Orthodox who are factionalised. These disobedient ones have liked up with others like them in the west.

http://www.papastronsay.com/Ukraine.htm

ICXC
NIKA

I wonder what will happen to the dissident Ukrainians if the SSPX becomes reconciled to the current Papacy?

My guess is there will be another schism and this smaller group in Ukraine will go it's own way.

I think it is touching how they have preserved their latinizations so lovingly. However as far as Catholic churches go it is quite the amorphodite.

Perhaps the pastoral solution would be for Major Archbishop Husar to grant an indult to these few parishes to serve the 'transformed' liturgy and leave them alone.

+T+
Michael

Wow.

The whole situation there is so sad.

Satan seems to like to work over time in Ukraine.

Their issues are not about rituals. They have been doing their own thing since the fall of the Soviets. They have in my view found common cause with the schismatics in the west. There is plenty of money behind them in the west. I find in interesting that the Orthodox Bishop they visit is the MP man who must have the smallest number of Orthodox in the area under him. I doubt very much if he knew the language they use to refer to the Orthodox on their website. Smacks of my enemies enemy is my friend (for today). I dont think HB Cardinal Husar can afford to play around here. He has already excommuncated a few for putting themselves under a Bishop outside the Church.

ICXC
NIKA

This group from Papa Stronsay worry me.

They have taken over this small Island and have done an incredible amount of building

It was quite a while after they went there before the everyday man realised that they were not under the Holy Father.

They had a lot of publicity - and it was all appealing for our support of these few monks who were going to live under incredibly hard conditions - yes life is not comfortable there - but they are now well established and expanding.

Since their early days on Papa Stronsay I have seen no recent mention of their existence.

The SSPX does have a presence in Glasgow but I'm not sure if they have any groups elsewhere in Scotland - other than the TransAlpine Redemptorists up North

I cannot see how they are getting funding for their buildings .

I note they are now appealing for funds and saying "we will take the money to Ukraine " Surely this is illegal .

Where is all the money coming from to support these people ?

Dear Friends,

I guess these people are our "Old Believers!"

Alex

I think the meeting is not a bad thing. If Ecumenism with the Ecumenists has failed because they have no strong religious principles and are inspired by a kind of globalist humanism, we must try to make an Ecumenism of our own, with people who are more responsable.

Our Latin-Traditionalist brethen hold very similar possitions. We all share a thousand years of common unity, common ressistance against persecutions and face the threat of global materialism. We are very much in favour of reaching unity, but a responsable unity that will necesaryily exclude Protestants and other heretical sects with whom we share nothing.

Yes Angela they have been well funded to spread their cancer through eastern europe and into Ukraine where they fund a break away church from the UGCC. It is only natural that these two should meet to discuss their common problem the UGCC.

ICXC
NIKA

Pavel Ivanovich:

"[T]heir cancer?"

I know people who belong to the SSPX. They may be misguided souls. But, they are no "cancer".

The SSPX is headquartered where my grandfather settled when he immigrated from Ireland. A few of my mother's childhood friends go to the SSPX Church. They are good people when you get to know them.

We should pray to St. Pius X for reconciliation between the SSPX and Rome.

Calling them a "cancer" - I don't think so.

JP

I pray that these people who have placed themselves outside the Church will stop their Missionary work in Catholic areas. They challenge the very authority in the Church of the Pope as the succesor of St Peter. They are not cute nor cuddly they are in particular trouble in Ukraine with their encouregment to the willfull and disobedient clergy and the laity who are silly enough to follow them out of the Church.

ICXC
NIKA

I am a traditional priest and celebrate both the Byzantine Divine Liturgy in Old Church Slavonic and the Tridentine Mass in Latin. I am the superior of our little monastery on the island of Papa Stronsay in Scotland.

I have read with wonder some of the comments referring to my recent visit to Lviv where I met the Russian Orthodox Archbishop. I hope this gives some clarification and I would welcome any constructive dialogue.
Here is my statement:
During my recent visit to Lviv I met the Russian Orthodox Archbishop. This was subsequently reported on the Internet as 'dialogue.' Since there has been some postings about this I thought that I should tell anybody who is interested about the meeting.
It was in order to get some Old Slavonic copies of the Psalms that we visited the Russian Orthodox bookshop in Lviv. Since Vatican II is is now difficult to get copies of anything in Church Slavonic. The Russian Orthodox have these books and they are very handy; so we went to buy them. Seeing that we were foreigners the woman in the bookshop wanted us to meet the bishop. She insisted that it would only take a minute and that the bishop would like to meet us. We agreed. The bookshop is very small, really a kiosk, and the church and bishop's office are close by. We were taken up the stairs and into the bishop's antechamber. We first met an Orthodox priest who acted as a secretary.
He wanted to know who we were. It is the second time I had been in that room.
The first time was a couple of years ago to visit a nun whom we knew. She had been a Catholic nun in Ukraine but because of Vatican II and the confusion of Ecumenism she felt it was possible to leave the Catholic convent and join an Orthodox one; this is the sin of apostasy. She is a very intelligent person and has written several books etc. I wanted to visit her to see if she had anyone at all who was keeping contact with her since she committed her apostasy.

So I said to the priest on this occasion that we knew this particular nun. He in turn got her to come and visit us. She was slightly hostile at first because she had received a letter from us inviting her to return to the Catholic Church.

We talked together with the priest and nun for some time. They wanted
to know how we lived here on Papa Stronsay and what our ideas were. Then they offered us a cup of tea and cakes. Our Ukrainian brother explained that we couldn't have anything to eat because we were fasting as it was our Lent. That caused alarm. 'What do Catholics fast?' The nun explained that Catholics do not fast. (That was perhaps her idea of Catholics.) When they heard that we fasted they wanted to know how we fasted and what we eat; being bi-ritual we follow the Byzantine fasting which was quite a shock to them. Here we see that the Vatican II discipline gives scandal not only to Traditional Catholics but also to the schismatics. This is a cause of Oriental Catholics deciding to join the schismatic Orthodox.

Then the bishop came.

We went through double doors into his office and sat down. He also wanted to know what we believe, how we live, what we follow. We told him we believe that the Russian Orthodox should be converted to the Catholic Church as was the policy of the pre Vatican II Church and the practise of Bishop Charnetsky. He listened quietly. He slightly peaked later when I told him that we did not agree with the Vatican giving the icon of Our Lady of Kazan to the Patriarch of Moscow; [that was when he stood up and waved his arms a bit and said it belonged to them and why should the Vatican not give back what was not theirs etc....]. We let that pass; he knew what we thought. Then he concluded that we Traditional Catholics had more in common with them than that Vatican does. He talked about only believing the Pope to be first among equals and proceeded to wind the conversation up giving us each the gift of a bar of Lviv's famous chocolate. He then wanted to have a photo taken with us. As we waited for the camera it was explained that the bishop's medals -those displayed and hanging in rows on the right side of the Wall-rug (over 20 of them) were awareded to him by his Church; and those arranged on the left side (another20 or so) were his civil awards. Then we were shown the photo of the bishop piloting a jet during the time that he was doing his Military Service and he told us that that he was a parachutist. Here our Brother Louis Marie replied that he too had been a parachutistist when he did his French Military service. Then to everyone's amazement the bishop suddenly seized him in a Russian bear hug exclaiming in a loud voice: Only parachutists know what it is to be alive!' [That must be a comment on how often Russian parachutes open!] Then he told a Russian parachutist's joke about the parachutist asking his commander what happens when falling if the second parachute doesn't open; to which the commander said, with an optimistic tone, that he would have the joy of free falling for the rest of his life! Br Louis had another in the French version about being told to keep his arm up in the air to save his watch. The atmosphere had changed quite suddenly he was very friendly. Then the
priest arrived back with the camera and the photo was taken and we were given each a packet of paper icons. When we came out through the bishop's double doors the nun nodded as we left the ante-room for the corridor and thence to the street and the snow. That is the sum of it:
A visit to a bookshop for a few Psalm books in Old Church Slavonic. We met the Russian Orthodox Archbishop of Lviv and we told him what all Catholic priests would have told him before Vatican II. He knew our position and our intention for his soul and the souls of all those who followed him. He had heard a different story in Moscow the week earlier when a Vatican delegation went to wish the Patriarch of Moscow a happy Name day without telling him that they wanted the Russians to convert to the Catholic Church. As for us we continue to pray that the Immaculate Heart of Mary will triumph over Russia converting her to the One True Church.
Fr Michael Mary, C.SS.R.

Dear Father,

We Eastern Catholics on this Forum likewise invite you to join the Catholic Church!

Alex

Fr. Michael "Mary",

I am very disappointed at your post...the Orthodox is NOT a schismatic nor a apostate.

Don't try to shove the "traditionalist" Latin Catholic thinking into the Byzantine or Eastern Catholic atmosphere.

I am a Catholic and I'll be the first to defend the Orthodox Church from all attacks directed to her by any ignorant Latin Catholics.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Dear Father Michael Mary,

With all due respect, doesn't the most immaculate heart of Mary, the Mother of our common God, triumph when Russia turns back to believing in Her Son, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?!?

Respectfully in Christ, our Unity,
Alice