www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall God's been calling me to something unusual, I think

I used to be a Goth and God convicted me for several years for it before I gave it up. At first I thought it was just my conscience being afflicted by those evil "normies", but after giving it up I feel like a just took a lens cap out of the way of God's light and grace. Weird thing is, now I feel like He's asking me to go the whole nine miles and give up on rock and metal altogether (!) I've associated myself with it's ways so strongly that it's a hard thing for me to do, and it's always been one of those things that I needed some kind of explicit theological/philosophical reason for doing. Thing is, He seems to be turning me against all "countercultural" youth cultures. I can't explain it, but I get the impression it's because it feeds into the passions and blocks true theosis via attachments. But this is kind of a big deal... any advice? I've always striven to absorb the most excellent things I can in learning and art and thinking, and it seems like this is the one thing that is keeping me from being well-mannered, traditional, and excellent in all "secular" interests. I mean, I like chant and classical music but it doesn't get into me the same way some death metal does. Which is probably why I should drop it, right? It's like it bypasses the scrutinies of my intellect and squats a seed of violence and a war-like, arrogant, antisocial mentality right into my heart.

I kind of feel like I just opened grace's floodgates with the changes I made and now it's carrying me away to old man's land. I'm becoming very traditional... clean-cut, calmer, quieter, less cussing, better mannered, eating meals at the table, etc. Basically I've begun to understand peoples' old fashioned ways despite being 21.

Thank you for sharing, and may God continue to bless you as you turn away from the ungodly and unholy things which can accost our senses and turn us to great sin and personal destruction

--In Christ our Lord,
Alice, Moderator

HeavenlyBlack...what a great post and witness for us!
I have often thought that Jesus was the ultimate in counterculture. Saint Peter tells us that: "Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. He committed no sin; no guile was found on his lips. When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten; but he trusted to him who judges justly." (1 Peter 2:21-23)
So, I would tell you, go ahead, be countercultural in doing His will in your life.
To live the values outlined in the Gospel is the ultimate in counterculture. We have 20 centuries of witnesses who proceeded us, many who shed their very blood to be countercultural.

Though we are in this world for a short time, how we live and love will determine our eternal destiny. May God's grace help you and me along the way.

Ray
www.theologyincolor.com [theologyincolor.com]

I know what you are talking about. I am in my late 20's now and came into contact with Eastern Christianity in my early 20's.

Unfortunately I wasn’t able to break away from my passions until my mid-20s even though I had embraced Orthodoxy already. Thank God for his patience with me.

I listen to a lot of Metal-core/hardcore music- like As I Lay Dying, ect. As I have gotten older I wonder why? (also my wife can't stand it so that maybe has helped me break away from this style of music). But I do enjoy rocking out every once in a while.

I will say this Jesus Christ is counter-cultural! He represents everything the world hates! He and the Church are the last true rebellion. Really the only TRUE rebellion is being dead to this world and embracing Christ. Eastern Christianity is the vehicle for this true rebellion. I suggest you check out the site:

http://www.deathtotheworld.com/

It is geared for youth in the "countercultural scene" and it will help you on your journey.

"Orthodoxy must stand out in these times... in times of so-called spiritual revival"
+Father Seraphim Rose

Heavenly Black,
The Holy Spirit is powerful, isn't it. It's great that you have been "zapped"! What you are expected to do now is the hard part; God's amazing introduction is over; now He is waiting your "Yes" just as he awaited the Godbearer's "yes" after Archangel Gabriel's visit.

The Goth mentality is similar to the hippie mentality of the 60's; it has shock value and is a protest culture. What you have to decide is what are you protesting? If it is injustice and indifference than the answer is Christ and the Good News.

The "black" culture is spawned by Satan; he seeks to destroy; this weapon is hate; God's weapon is the cross and love. You have been called in a special way. Please know that someone who loves you has been praying for you and those powerful prayers are being answered by God. Seek out the Virgin Mary's intercession; she is not only the Mother of God, but is YOUR heavenly Mother and she loves you and wants you to know the Father's love.

Christ is amongst us!
Fr Deacon Paul

The Holy Things for the Holy.

You're obviously making progress along the path toward the Kingdom of God. when I was a child, in catechism class, we were taught to avoid near occasions of sin.Nothing unusual about that.

From a purely natural standpoint,if you give this stuff up, it'll be better for your brain and your ability to think and reason correctly.

I think we're all in your corner & I think God is, too.

Well, I have a problem though. The more I think about it, aren't we supposed to honor who God made us to be? Because what I'm doing seems to scream of "all Christians should dress, eat, and act, and feel alike." That [i]really[/i] bugs me. Perhaps I'm just taking things too far. I don't know. But shouldn't we all be different, isn't trying to whack one's own individuality a little like dishonoring the particular iconography we were made to be? I mean, I wasn't one of those stereotypical teen angst/horror movies/Marilyn Manson/Satanism type Goths. I loved intellectualism, profundity, beauty, exquisite things, philosophy, theology, the epic and powerful and rich (think Tridentine Mass with guitars LOL). Many Goths are more snobs than shock rockers. Eating well and being polite and romantic and well mannered are actually cool in our culture LOL.

Now I'm just confused. I don't really think it was God calling me after all. It just looked more spiritual, kind of like how being sweet and happy and nicey all the time looks more spiritual to Protestants. All the priests I've talked to have just told me to be myself. But a part of my problem is that I've been through so much hell in my life that I can't even figure out who I am anymore. Judging by the saints I don't think it's holy to gut oneself of all individual tastes and quirks... ?

HB this will all take time. Don't try to change everything all at once about yourself. Focus on fasting from sin attending liturgy and reading the scriptures.
I have been down a somewhat similar road before. Instead of thinking of it as giving up the music, instead add orthodox chants that you like into your listening rotation. Also add orthodox podcast into the mix. After a short time you'll stop listening to the outright blasphemous music, and only listen to those songs from your former life that bring happiness or peace. You may eventually find that most all of the music you listened to was mostly about sex, drugs, death, or depression.
On side note Christian rock isn't much of an alternative either. It's watered down theology and usually copies what is popular in secular music.
Being a true orthodox Christian is so radical that you will NOT be anything like all the other Christians. It's call to faith and living is so foreign to 99.99% of the rest of the people around you... they will consider you a freak.
Give it time and find a spiritual father and some orthodox friends to guide you on your journey.

HB:

Christ is in our midst!!

A good place to start is very simple. Try reading a chapter of the Gospels each day--just one. And then take a read of a chapter of the Acts and the Epistles. What you put into your life and your head determines who you are.

Sacred Scripture has been called "the Owner's Manual." Who better than our Creator who imspired the sacred texts to let you know who you are, what you're doing here, where you're going, and how He wants you to get there?

Bob

I have to say, I've basically been fasting from my self these past few days. I was willing to give it all up for Jesus. But all He's seems to have done is tweak a few things here and there and give it all a spit-shine and hand it back to me with instructions.

In prayer He broke me of my antisocial and anxious traits, helped me become more myself by leading me into a more compatible subculture, and He taught me how to honor Him through accepting what I've received as a gift from Him thus lessening my pride and increasing charity by learning how to honor all people as diverse icons of Himself, all needed within the Church for its fullness. He showed me how to avoid harmful things in my little corner of the world more without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And even though I was willing to give up all harshness and excitable passion, He reminded me that all my emotions can be hallowed - even hatred and anger - by being moderated by the virtue of meekness instead of being obliterated into my mistaken stoic ideal. I seem to have misunderstood what it means to overcome the passions. I understood that it was about sinful attachments and worldliness but being the emotive person I am I tried to cut my passion along with my passions. Bad idea.

Man, I was so busy comparing my "self" to others that I almost killed my "self". Where did I ever get the idea the Jesus hates weird people?

Shoot, I am 63, sometimes I get pretty weird. Just ask my kids

A couple of thoughts:
- God is love. If we are to become more like Him and grow in Him then we must become love too. Anger and hatred has no place in our hearts. Jesus even teaches that anger towards a brother is akin to murder.
- working out your salvation is more than a spiritual transaction in which we try to get enough good points to go to some other place when we die. Our salvation is to become Christ-like now. We are to die to our former self. We are to die to this world. This is a long journey ... it's a marathon not a sprint.
- as I have found out the hard way many times, careful in what you think God is telling you. Most often it is only your own conscious compromising its morals. We do not need personal revelation... usually it borders on divination or something akin to fortune telling. God revealed himself in the scriptures and thru Jesus Christ. We do not need to wait for God to come talk to us. We have the scriptures, the fathers, and the church. That is more than enough direction on how to lead our life.
- I would suggest you engage with a spiritual father to help you along your journey

May the Lord bless you.
Dave

HeavenlyBlack, at more than twice your age please know that I can relate to the spiritual chaffing you describe. I admire the intelligence and poise in your soul searching. I only wish I was as thoughtful and actively seeking of a Holy Spirit guided discernment of my life's path at your age. There seems to me some good and balanced advice here, the most helpful, personally, coming from folks who are telling you to keep things in perspective and importantly get thee to a spiritual father for balanced nourishment. Even though I don't share your fondness in musical genre, I have a terrific fondness of everything from noisy/experimental rock and jazz to obscure baroque composers - and everything in between. Bortnyansky will certainly bring me closer to God, but so can Bo Diddley. I think some people here miss this. In the rumblings that attended my trying to reactivate my Catholic Faith, I recall a loving peacefulness in my prayer life that accepted my "weirdness" but also urged me to keep my heart and head open to personal change. I can't prescribe to you how to do it. It is a shared, but also very unique process - and Slava Bohu for that! I can't say that God wants you to shrug off your heavy metal ways and means,maybe, but I do agree that it would be horrible if we all became freshly scrubbed and sweet smelling clones. Sometimes on this site and among fellow believers I get extremely frustrated when I sniff out a not so implicit urging that all would be so grand and "Godly" if I one only bought into a conservative Republican world view/agenda. I believe I have seen God's great Grace, mercy, and His very hand at work in the simplest,most mundane circumstances in my life. Avenues and scenes where some here may not immediately think would be soil for God's work on us.

All I know: We are all sinners and we all need to repent and change, but is the epiphany of a specific illuminated path for change received all or in part inspired by the Holy Spirit? It's a process of finding out, I think. God bless you in search to find out; may it be Divinely informed and may you not lose yourself, but but joyously find yourself as a mature Christian. I desire the same for myself.