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May God grant Metropolitan William many blessed years!


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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by DMD
Are there 'self governing churches' who have greater 'rights' than do others? It seems as if the Ukrainians at least followed some of the historical processes of an Eastern Church in this matter. Why the difference?

Yes. Patriarchal/Major Archeparchial Churches' elect their own bishops. Metropolitan Churches submit a list of three and the Pope appoints one. Why? Good question.

Time to elevate the Metropolia to a Major Archepiscopal Church.

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Many years!!

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Originally Posted by DMD
Just a question - I note that the new Metropolitan was not educated at the BCC seminary in Pittsburgh, but rather ...'he completed his theological studies in the Washington Theological Union in Washington, DC, and in the Vincentian Seminary of Palmerston, Pennsylvania. His religious training was supervised by the Byzantine Franciscans Order of Friars Minor, in which he ordained to the priesthood May 23, 1987. He was Director of Vocations for the Franciscan Friars of the Byzantine Monastery of the Dormition in Sybertsville' (from the original link.) Is that the norm?

Glory to Jesus Christ!

With the exception of Bishop Gerald our recently appointed bishops have been monastics, or former monastics. I suspect Rome is trying to revive the ancient Mukachevo tradition.

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Axios! Axios! Axios!

May God grant Vladyka William many blessed years in service.


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Franciscans are not monastics. Not even close.

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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by DMD
Are there 'self governing churches' who have greater 'rights' than do others? It seems as if the Ukrainians at least followed some of the historical processes of an Eastern Church in this matter. Why the difference?

Yes. Patriarchal/Major Archeparchial Churches' elect their own bishops. Metropolitan Churches submit a list of three and the Pope appoints one. Why? Good question.

I must confess that I am familiar with the Canon Law governing the BCC and the UGCC to some degree. However, Deacon Lance's question points to the real issue and I was hoping it would be raised in response to my inquiry.

Broadly speaking, there are Orthodox Churches across the world which are somewhat equivalent to a 'sui juris' Church; i.e. the autochephalous churches (like Russia, Greece etc...) or the autonomous self-ruling ones like in Slovakia. Of course, given Orthodoxy's absence of the concept of a 'universal primate', they are not dependent upon the approval of a 'third party' for their episcopal selections or internal management practices.

With respect to being in neither of those catagories, the ACROD parallels the BCC regarding episcopal succession in some ways.

Since we do not have a self-ruling Synod, we 'lack' the eccelesiological ability to self-regenerate. HOWEVER, unlike the BCC, we maintain the historical precedent of convening a Sobor/Council and selecting a Bishop-candidate who is then presented to our overseeing Synod - that of the Ecumenical Patriarchate - for for their 'formalistic' approval - not unlike that of the Pope's recent approval of Arch. Sviatoslav.

The abolition of this right with respect to the Ruthenian Church was one of the driving objections to both the appointment of Bishop Soter Ortynsky by Rome in the first instance for both the Galican and Rusyn populations and the subsequent appointment and, more importantly, the behavior of Bishop Takach.

Both of these actions by Rome were viewed, correctly of course from my perspective, as critical abrogations of the contractural rights granted the Orthodox who pledged loyalty to the Holy See under the eastern european unions of Brest and Uzhorod during the 16th and 17th centuries.

I am curious as to how my EC and RC friends here view this.

regards,

dd

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Originally Posted by Rybak
Franciscans are not monastics. Not even close.

They are not monks but mendicants and take solemn vows and live by a rule. Very close.


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Originally Posted by DMD
I am curious as to how my EC and RC friends here view this.

regards,

dd

It is my view that the CCEO needs revision such that whatever rank the primate of a sui iuris Church holds Patriarch/Archbishop/Metropolitan, the sui iuris Church have a Synod that elects its own bishop everywhere in the world.


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God Grant Our new Metropolitan many years!

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God grant Metropolitan-elect, Archbishop William C. Skurla, many happy and blessed years!

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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by DMD
I am curious as to how my EC and RC friends here view this.

regards,

dd

It is my view that the CCEO needs revision such that whatever rank the primate of a sui iuris Church holds Patriarch/Archbishop/Metropolitan, the sui iuris Church have a Synod that elects its own bishop everywhere in the world.

I heartily agree with my brother, Deacon Lance.

Many years,

Neil


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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by Rybak
Franciscans are not monastics. Not even close.

They are not monks but mendicants and take solemn vows and live by a rule. Very close.

Father Deacon is correct.

As a mendicant myself I feel highly qualified to address this (yes Carmelites are also mendicants).

Mendicants are monastics but are not monks. We take colemn vows, live by a rule, have common prayer, common meals, and scheduled recreation in common.

We Carmelites even wear the monastic belt and have the monastic hood. Franciscans just have the hood.

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Originally Posted by DavidB, the Byzantine Catholic
Mendicants are monastics but are not monks. We take colemn vows, live by a rule, have common prayer, common meals, and scheduled recreation in common.

Thanks to both you and Fr. Deacon Lance for these explanatory remarks (I know I learned something)!

Is it not the Eastern tradition for monastics (not necessarily monks) to be preferred as candidates for elevation to the episcopate?

Last edited by Curious Joe; 01/21/12 04:13 PM. Reason: fixed a few typos ...
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It is the Orthodox tradition. As far as Catholic orders are concerned we all know that there are great differences between the eastern and western approach to monasticism going back to the time of St. Benedict and earlier. I have the greatest of respect, admiration and appreciation for Catholic monasticism for it saved western civilization during the period of Muslim advance and the so-called Dark Ages and has been a provider of great works, educational and social in our modern times.

My point is that in many ways comparing the east and west on this subject is akin to comparing apples and oranges. Both are fruits, both are round and both are beneficial - but they are, in the end very different.

Anyway, I prefer my bishops to come from the ranks of pastoral experience as I firmly believe that for one to come out of the shelter of a strict Orthodox monastic life and enter the world to run a Diocese is a prescription for disaster many times. A whole 'nother topic indeed and one that is sure to provoke a vigorous debate among my fellow Orthodox!

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