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Dec 29th, 2019
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It seems to me - as an outside in this conversation - that Stuart and Otsheylnik are trying to get at slightly different things. Stuart wants to make the point that communism is/has the potential to be a uniquely destructive form of government/philosophy in regards to a Christian moral ethos in general and a Christian view of abortion in particular. Fair point. Otsheylnik wants to make the point that Russians are not uniquely genetically coded to be predisposed to being abortion-friendly, but rather that abortion has been practiced everywhere and by all types of people, and is a general societal problem. Also a fair point, and worth reminding ourselves (thank you, Otsheylnik).
If I am right (and I'm sorry if I'm off, fellas), I'd say the two points compliment each other. Abortion has and will always be a societal problem no matter the form of government under which it's practiced, and no matter the form of [dis/en]couragement that the State decides to take regarding abortion; still, one can see the uniquely deleterious effects that communism can have on a Christian moral ethos, using abortion in Russia as a prime example.
Bring up "Holy Russia" on this Forum and people seem to inevitably talk past each other (myself included).
Alexis
Last edited by Logos - Alexis; 06/21/11 01:27 AM.
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I would never speak of "Holy America", or "Holy Britain", or "Holy Anyplace Else", but for some reason people insist on speaking of "Holy Russia" despite that country's history over the past 1100 years. Curious indeed.
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Well, Stuart, that's why I included the quotation marks. My attempt at a subtle joke. Perhaps this is not the proper Forum. Pun intended.
But to your point, yes of course calling it "Holy Russia" is silly. Just like calling that very unholy alliance of German principalities the "Holy Roman Empire." But at least that was the official-unofficial name.
One is Holy, One is Lord, Jesus Christ, to the glory of God the Father.
Alexis
Last edited by Logos - Alexis; 06/21/11 01:33 AM.
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Holey Russia is more like it!
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During the nine years I lived in Bulgaria (1996-2005), a number of married women told me that they had had multiple abortions, and that this was extremely common. One woman told me she had had six, I think it was. They said that, under Communism, it was the main form of "birth control" that was available. I believe the same situation existed in Russia. It was both shocking and heartbreaking.
I taught at a language high school for a couple of years there. One year I taught a class on American culture for one of my older and more advanced English classes. They had asked me if we could read and discuss topics that were "controversial" in the US, so I had gathered articles from American magazines on various topics. Abortion was one of the topics I chose. When we started reading and discussing one of the articles, there was a lot of whispering going on, and I asked them what they were talking about. In all seriousness, they said, "We don't understand what's controversial about abortion. Why is this a problem in the United States?" I was stunned, to put it mildly. Their question said a lot about what happens when you are raised in a culture that had legislated atheism. This is so sad. I remember when I was in the high school (10th grade I think), I had an argue with two girls in my class about the abortions. Their view was that it's their right to decide whether to have or not to have abortion. This was in 2001 probably.
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Right now in the Russian parliament there is a proposed law which would:
1. Institute a waiting period of 2-7 days.
2. Require prescription for "morning after" pill.
3. Require husbands to give consent to their wives abortions.
4. Banning free abortions at government clinics.
5. Requiring parental consent for minors.
It seems that the Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kyril is very involved in social issues, and that this legislative initiative is pushed by the Orthodox and conservative politicians.
I work for CBR Slovakia, a partner organization of the Center for Bioethical Reform. Amazingly to me, we have heard from Russian partners that they have been able to set up their pro-life displays of graphic abortion images on army bases with the blessing of the government.
A similar proposal concerning the right of father's to refuse to consent to abortion is being made by the "League of Fathers" in Slovakia, an organization which fights for the rights of divorced fathers, who are often marginalized by the divorce courts.
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Alexis,
I knew you were being sardonic, but I know far too many others who are in deadly earnest.
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Za myr z'wysot ... Member
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I can't fathom how a woman can voluntarily put her body through that so many times [ten] (not to mention the soul and the psyche, but that is another story) It boggles the mind, really!  Alice, What really boggles the mind is how circumstances can come about--or be brought about--to make people that desperate. I once read an article in which the writer compared the woman seeking to abort with an animal caught in a claw trap who chews away its own limb in order to get free. In other words, she is aware of the harm she is doing to herself, but sees herself as having absolutely no choice. (And, let us not forget how societal expectations and peer pressure contribute to that desperation.) I wonder: after having endured so many abortions, do unprotected sexual relations still appeal to these women?  I am surprised that they do not embrace celibacy! I think societal expectations apply here, too. Peace, Deacon Richard
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My mother had two, my grandmother - either one or two. I was Mom's third pregnancy, and she decided to keep me.
I pray that the culture of abortion in Russia is replaced by responsible and safe birth control.
Last edited by MariyaNJ; 02/19/12 01:42 AM.
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I pray that the culture of abortion in Russia is replaced by responsible and safe birth control. MariyaNJ, As a Catholic who believes in the Church's teaching that artificial birth is intrinsically evil, I could never pray for this intention. Studies have shown that the increased use of so-called "responsible and safe" contraceptives leads to more abortions.
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I pray that the culture of abortion in Russia is replaced by responsible and safe birth control. MariyaNJ, As a Catholic who believes in the Church's teaching that artificial birth is intrinsically evil, I could never pray for this intention. Studies have shown that the increased use of so-called "responsible and safe" contraceptives leads to more abortions. Thanks for sharing. Please pray for what you will, and I will pray for what I will.
Last edited by MariyaNJ; 02/20/12 06:09 PM.
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