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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 696 Likes: 2
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 696 Likes: 2 |
Both those charges are myths. The public option is not tax-funded. Furthermore, most private health plans cover abortion services. Whether these are used or not, one pays for the coverage. Check yours. Not tax-funded? Where do you think the government gets its money, selling lemonade? Private plans may cover whatever they like - they are private. Because mine may choose to include that has no bearing on the discussion. When the government mandates health plans to include contraception and abortion, there is no choice in the matter and morality is compromised, which is what the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are standing firmly against. It's the whole "unintended consequences" thing about getting the government to make people do something you think is good - it doesn't always work out like you hope it will, and often the results are worse than the original problem.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
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The US Census Dept comes up with these figures, not the people who want to nationalize health care. Oh, please, as if they are not the one and the same, at least for the 2010 cycle. There was plenty in the news about the politicization of the census. The census does not collect insurance information. The US Census Bureau does collect but not publish information from surveys. Unlike the census, which is mandatory, the surveys are voluntary, and are conducted for different purposes and time frames, using different methodologies. Plenty of room to play with data, like is happening with unemployment (the rate is going down because people have lost benefits. If they do not continue to certify-and most do not if there is no check coming-they are no longer counted as "unemployed," although they are not working. There are over 40 million uninsured Americans, or about 16.3%. How or why they are not covered is irrelevant because we will just thrown huge undirected sums of money at them and the "problem" will magically disappear? Devil in the details. Ignoring them does not change that. They are uninsured, and are a drag on the system, nationalized or not. The statistic certainly does not include people who are covered by a spouse's policy as you stated. It seems like you are inventing spurious statistics of your own to advance your point of view. if he were, it would be no more than what the census bureau is doing now, fact made evident when Obama ordered it to report to the White House, and not the Commerce Secretary as before. Politicized or not, the statistics of the Census Bureau in 2006, during the previous administration pegged the figure of uninsured at 47 million, some 15% plus. In 2011 the number rose to some 49 million, but I'm sure the bureau is loaded with leftists, and the earth is flat...or, at least, it used to be, until those junk scientist came along. ever read the Climategate emails? I guess it is just a difference of taste: some like citing politicized statistics, and I prefer my fiction straight.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
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In as apolitical manner as may be possible, ask your your family physician, or the nurse-practitioner, at your local general care practice about the issues and challenges posed by the un- or under-insured and the impact those segments of the population are having on the health care system. There is a problem and pretending it is political or doesn't exist isn't going to make it go away. You assume (and you know what happens when you assume) that none of us are physicians, nurse-practitioners or other health care workers. Just to name two things which have been shot down by politics-tort reform (the tort lawyers are a staple of the DNC), and health insurance across borders (ironically, if Obamacare had done that, the individual mandate could have survived a constitutional challenge. Try again. There may indeed be better solutions or options available to deal with this than the one adopted, but just saying 'no' isn't going to solve things. (It works about as well as saying no did with the drug abuse problem.) Yeah. Drug abuse went down. Then we got President "Didn't inhale." Whoops! Was that politics. And the Left's ignoring better solutions and options, as happened in that photo op at the White House, isn't "saying no".
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
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After thirty years in local government administration, I run into that all of the time. For example, our area of upstate NY is very conservative, especially the rural towns. We had over one billion dollars of river and flash flooding last September and FEMA has been here helping enormously. In rural Tioga County, NY the locals are up in arms because they obtained an estimate to redo a dirt road and embankment from their town engineering firm in excess of $ 500,000. FEMA's people said they didn't need as lavish of a fix for a dirt road with four houses and $9,000 worth of grading and rip-rak (rocks) would stabilize the roadway and restore it to what it was before the storms. They've gotten the media, the congressman (conservative Rep. from Utica) and two Senators in the mix.
It is my observation that people only hate big government when it deals with others than themselves. When it is them or their family, they LOVE it. instead of observing, you might be seeing things.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 708 Likes: 8
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 708 Likes: 8 |
ever read the Climategate emails?
I guess it is just a difference of taste: some like citing politicized statistics, and I prefer my fiction straight. I find it frightening that you're serious.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
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ever read the Climategate emails?
I guess it is just a difference of taste: some like citing politicized statistics, and I prefer my fiction straight. I find it frightening that you're serious. reality can frighten some. So they retreat to fantasy.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 708 Likes: 8
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 708 Likes: 8 |
Not me. In Maine we're pretty hard-nosed, and simply say, "You can't get blood out of a turnip". Ponder that one, brother.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
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Not me. In Maine we're pretty hard-nosed, and simply say, "You can't get blood out of a turnip". Ponder that one, brother. Sorry, I never spend my time wandering around in left field. You're the one expressing fear. Seems the blood is already out of the turnip, if that is what you mean. Though that is far from clear.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,084 Likes: 12
Global Moderator Member
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Global Moderator Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,084 Likes: 12 |
Gentlemen, knock off the sniping and discuss issues, please. After 3 pages or so of civil discussion and reasoned argumentation, it's suddenly starting to devolve into sounding like a schoolyard debate. While all of us can and should appreciate the occasional clever turn of phrase, when those start to sound like competing litanies chanted across a soccer pitch, threads tend to begin a downhill course from which it can be difficult to recover. Stick to the high ground; it makes for better reading and thinking by the non-participants as to your respective positions. But, taking no position, in response to the observation by my brother from North of here that You can't get blood out of a turnip I do want to offer that one can get a reasonable facsimile thereof from a beet  Many years, Neil
Last edited by Irish Melkite; 05/17/12 11:25 AM.
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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