www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Carpathian Mountain Outreach 2012

I want to clarify my disdain is directed towards those who view 'us' as 'unchurched' or 'Godless' heathens - not the majority of God-fearing Protestants who likely view the antics of such folks with as much suspicion as do we Orthodox or Catholics.

Christ is in our midst!

No offense taken...believe me, many a Lutheran and Anglican has been regarded by such as these as being "unsaved" because we believe that salvation comes from God's decision for us 2000 years ago in Nazareth, Bethlehem, and a hill outside of Jerusalem rather than from our "decision" for God.

Our UGCC parish in The Colony, St. Sophia, was a Baptist church before being purchesed by the Eparchy of St. Nicholas and remodeled.

I completely agree.

Found this on the "Becker Bible Studies Library" website under "Anabaptist Belief"

www.guidedbiblestudies.com/library/anabaptistbelief.htm [guidedbiblestudies.com]

I've heard this before in conversations where people have tried their best to downplay--maybe even divorce--Mary from any place in Jesus' life and Church history. Seems to me that this borders on many of the heresies that were discussed and rejected during the first seven ecumenical councils.

Comments?

(emphasis mine)

Bob

You can watch some of the Anabaptist on reality TV. On National Geographic there are two programs that I watch: Amish: Out of Order [channel.nationalgeographic.com] and American Colony: Meet the Hutterites [channel.nationalgeographic.com] My impression from watching the TV series, are that the Amish and the Hutterites are both cults that are in existence because they more or less force their children to stay in the Church. If they leave the Church/Colony then they are ostracized and can't see their family or friends. In addition, they prevent their children from having an education beyond the ability to read and write.

The problem with both the Anabaptist and the Baptist is that they have a warped view of History. Some believe Constantine started the Catholic Church. Some even believe St. Patrick wasn't a Catholic. They take our beliefs and twist them. For example, our veneration of relics they would say we worship a big toe. They would go off and show some relic of a Saints toe and say see you even worship body parts. They are very combative. One time I tried to hold a conversation with a fundamental Baptist at Mardi Gras. He began to yell at me and told me I was going to burn in Hell because I was a Catholic. I believe he was handing out Jack Chick tracks.

These are some pretty successful cults since they have been hanging around for over 400 years. Since Anabaptists only baptize adults and since neither Amish nor Hutterites proselytize they aren't very effective as cults at coercing new members. Maybe you should check out your local Mormons or Jehovahs Witnesses if you are looking for cults.

All Anabaptists have a history of practicing banning of and association with sinners which is a fairly straight forward interpretation of several biblical passages. The Amish, because they were founded by a preacher, Joseph Amman, who believed the Mennonites were too lax in there practice of the ban are certainly more focused on that aspect of their religious lives than others might be.

The Amish and I believe the Hutterites as well, because they do not baptize until adulthood allow their children to make a conscious decision to stay or leave. Many do leave.

As for education, the children of the Amish where I come from attend school through 8th grade. I went to school with several Amish children. They also teach their own children in their own schools. Since they live in an essentially agrarian society, without most of the so called modern conveniences, they don't see the need for more schooling than that.

Your opinions seem to be built on a pretty deeply held ignorance. Rather than watching TV to find out what these people are about why don't you get a serious book and read about them, you might actually learn the truth.

By the way, I have lived among Anabaptists all of my life and I have never ever had one person engage me aggressively in any religious discussion or ever question my own beliefs. I certainly cannot say the same about the Baptists or other fundamentalists. I suspect you have never had a confrontation with an Anabaptist either. It is just not what they do.

JimG,

Thanks for the insight on the Anabaptist. I haven't met one before. All of my encounters have been with Baptists (Southern, Independent, Fundamentalists, etc...). Again, I did point out that it was my impressions based upon watching a TV show. As you pointed out this isn't enough information to pass judgement.

However, I do disagree with your assessment that just because an organization has been around a long time no longer qualifies them as a cult. Since Anabaptist aren't Catholic, twist both history and faith (most likely because of lack of education as mentioned before), restrict education, banish their children, etc... I would say that qualifies as a cult.

Okay, I've had Anabaptists and Baptists/fundamentalists confused. The similarity, however, seems to be in the statement I found and posted above. Both these groups of people seem to have the same ideas about separating the Mother of God from Jesus. And my question is how that seems to undermine the whole theology of who Jesus Christ is--what separates Catholics and Orthodox Christians from them.

Bob

I think someone earlier made an important point. All of these groups profess no creed and lack any form of hierarchy or resonsibility to any authority other than themselves. They all lack catholocity in the Eastern sense of having all of the valid elements of truth.

They have an amazing capacity creating their own versions of truth without the tempering force of either creed or tradtion let alone both.

Once in my home two Mennonite churches split because of a dispute over the appropriateness of the use of zippers.

The bottom line is that these fundamentalists will lure away their share of folks because the elixer the sell guarantees an easy route to heaven without either significant investment or effort.
The worst part is that it is so hard to expose the fraud because the evidence is not in this world.

In a related news article:
Latin American Church needs new effort to stop attrition to Evangelicals, Pope says [catholicculture.org]

The Holy Father said,

Is the Church of the East not fulfilling the needs of the people of the Carpathian Mountains?

Maybe in the interests of ecumenism, some of us Byzantine Christians in the DFW area ought to drop in on these folks this coming Sunday. After all, it is the feast of the Nativity of St. John the BAPTIST and we all know (!) that he founded the Baptist church.

Why, we might even end up "accepting Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Saviour" and thus "get saved".

On second thought: maybe not...

Maybe we could pray outside the Church on the Feast day. A prayer of exorcism? just kidding...

I find it disturbing that people don't take what the Holy Father is saying here seriously.