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As a long-time student of the Plain Peoples and someone who has had a lot of opportunities to meet and interact with them, I have to agree with Jim's early comments above as regards them.
The differences between Baptist fundamentalists and the Anabaptist churches - be they Amish, Mennonite, or Hutterite - are very significant.
The latter, with some exceptions among Mennonites, do not actively evangelize and those Mennonite bodies which do so are far from aggressive in their efforts. You would be hard-pressed to find yourself in theological argumentation with any of these unless you were to initiate it and, even then, I think you would ordinarily find them walking away from it. They devote virtually no time to studying the faith of 'the English' and most would find it odd, at best, when any of their co-religionists do so.
While you'll find folks applying the derisive and derogatory term of 'cult' to these sects or denominations or whatever one chooses to term them, it is truly of ignorance that it's done. 'Cult' is an easy appellation to append to anyone who is religiously 'different' from us.
The Amish, the Hutterites, and at least those Mennonites who retain aspects of the 'Old Order' praxis are indeed 'different'. (One could also add to the list the Spiritual Christians - the Doukhobors and Molokans.) They are 'different' in their conscious choice to remove themselves or, at the very least, distance themselves from worldiness, in an effort to better remain focused on their spiritual beliefs. In this, they somewhat mirror the thinking that is observed among some of the Bezpopovotsy, particularly those who are of the isolationist persuasions ('it is not of us' or 'it is not for us', being phrases not uncommonly voiced by all such peoples in response to the query 'why don't you ...').
Their 'differentness' carries over into matters such as dress, transportation, liturgical language and praxis. And, yes, their history is full of schisms over such detail as zippers vs hooks and eyes vs buttons, colors of dress, styles and colors of buggies, and myriad other things - all too inconsequential to the rest of us to be of concern. These differences that bother them have extended even to automobile bumpers back when all such were chromed and some Old Order Mennonites who allowed the use of automobiles split - those of the Weaverland Conference becoming colloquially and collectively known as 'black bumper Mennonites', because they painted their bumpers black to match the only color vehicles they allowed.
(Keep in mind, that while we remain unconcerned by the choice of fasteners used on our clothing or by the color of our vehicular transport, we are readily scandalized by an iconographer rendering the Theotokos' garments in a 'non-canonical' color or by a presbyter's donning liturgical vesture of another ritual tradition.)
So, they're 'different', they're 'odd', and they would find our liturgical expression to be anathema to their expressions of worship. But, what they are not, by any stretch of the imagination, is a 'cult' as that term is typically used today. They are rather remarkable folk, the vast majority of whom would never think to consider that they were in any position to judge your soul's likelihood of salvation. Their theological beliefs are certainly different in very many respects from ours, but I defy anyone to think that God will turn away from a people whom, in the face of their children having been murdered, pray for the murderer and embrace his family, as happened after the Nickel Mines school massacre.
Many years,
Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Well said Neil. It just took a little while to get you to clarify and explain my humble efforts.
Jim
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Their 'differentness' carries over into matters such as dress, transportation, liturgical language and praxis. And, yes, their history is full of schisms over such detail as zippers vs hooks and eyes vs buttons, colors of dress, styles and colors of buggies, and myriad other things - all too inconsequential to the rest of us to be of concern. These differences that bother them have extended even to automobile bumpers back when all such were chromed and some Old Order Mennonites who allowed the use of automobiles split - those of the Weaverland Conference becoming colloquially and collectively known as 'black bumper Mennonites', because they painted their bumpers black to match the only color vehicles they allowed. Some of the finest neighbors to my parish are "black bumper Mennonites"--honest, hard working, gently invitational with regard to their faith, but quite respective of ours.
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I am currently reading, "Through Their Own Eyes - Liturgy as the Byzantines saw it" by Father Taft. In lecture one (chapter 1) of the book he is talking about how in Constantinople during the time of St. John Chrysostom the Arian heresy was all the people talked about. Fr Taft references historian Socrates Church History VI, 8 and states, The Arians...held their assemblies outside the city. So each week, whenever there was a feast - I mean Saturday and Sunday - on which it was customary to hold a synaxis in the churches, they congregated in public squares within the city gates and sag antiphonally odes composed in accord with the Arian belief. And this they did during the greater part of the night. In the morning, chanting the same antiphons, they procesed through the center of the city and went outside the gates of the city to their place of assembly... John [Chrysostom], concerned lest some of the more simple faithful be drawn away from the Church by such odes, set up some of his own people in opposition to them, so that they too, by devoting themselves to nocturnal hymnody, might obscure the effect of the Arian and confirm his faithful in the profession of their own faith In the book Fr. Taft continues by saying, Socrates tellus Chrysostom's flock took up his initiative with gusto, bearing in procession silver crosses illumined with lighted tapers designed by the saint himself and paid for by the Empress Eudoxia (d. 404). Do you think Saint John Chrysostom is trying to tell us something regarding Carpathian Mountain Outreach 2012?
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Quite possibly. An Orthodox poster on another forum wrote some years ago: The Reformed are like vampires.
They are horrified by the sign of the cross, literally run away from holy water (I wonder if it burns them?) and suck any good ceremonial out of a congregation.
No wonder they dress in that dreary black robe of death. God forbid we should have something beautiful, colorful and worthy of the King of Kings like a Gold colored Chasuble or a Gold plated chalice instead of some plastic, disposable Nyquil cup for the Sacrament.
Last edited by Thomas the Seeker; 06/25/12 01:21 AM.
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CMO has a new video explaining their efforts: CMO Video [ euroteamoutreach.org] See how they evangelize the Godless Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics. Finally, they can hear the Gospel. When watching the film make sure you stop at 7:30 seconds into it. You will see the "Missionaries" walk up to an BCC or Orthodox Church. I feel sorry for these people.
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