www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News New Italo-Albanian Bishop

Why would the Archimandrite kick you out for being Maronite? that makes no sense.

Shlomo Thymiato,

He has kicked me out because he is upset with the Maronite Community because:

1) we did not use his Church when we where establishing Our Community;
2) when his Church burnt down we did not really give to help rebuild it;
3) I embarassed him by my posting an appeal on this board asking members to contribute to the rebuilding of his Church;
4) he is upset with the Maronite Community because we are not educated on the Byzantine Liturgical practices. He yelled at me because I did not know the proper order of the Liturgy in the Byzantine Tradition; and
5) he feels (according to what he told me) that we Maronites do not deserve any help, and has said he will work to destroy our community here in Las Vegas.

I hope the above helps you understand my point.

Fush BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

antv,

I rarely find myself in disagreement with you, but I do on this point. The historic usage of the term 'Greek' in describing this particular Church related principally to ethnic Greeks who traveled to southern Italy for commercial or other purposes, some number of whom settled there and intermarried. That their Rite and liturgical language was identical in terminology to their ethnicity was not the driving consideration.

'Italo', although it has now come to reference the historic locale of these faithful, initially described the obverse - Italians who traveled to Greece for similar purposes, became attached to the Constantinoplian Rite, intermarried with Greeks, and brought the ritual praxis, etc, back to Italy with them. The true Italo-Byzantines were ultimately subsumed into the larger Greek worship community. And, as you note, the Italo-Greeks themselves were ultimately, in large measure - but not entirely, subsumed by the Arberesh.

Thus, one often sees the styling of this Church as 'Byzantine Italo-Greico-Albanian', mistaken by many as exhibiting a redundancy in the use of both 'Byzantine' and 'Greek'.

Many years,

Neil

This sounds most disedifying

DONATUS IS NOMEN EIUS
FROM WIKIPEDIA

Saint Donatus of Evorea (Albanian: Shën Donati, Greek: Άγιος Δονάτος) was a Christian saint revered in Albania and Greece.

Donatus was born in Butrint, in modern-day Albania, and lived during the reign of the Emperor Theodosius I. According to the 5th-century Greek historian Sozomen, Saint Donatus was Bishop of Evorea, identifiable with Paramythia in Epirus. The saint is said to have accomplished several miracles, such as successfully fighting a dragon, purifying well waters, saving the emperors' daughter, and reviving the dead.

Saint Donatus of Butrint died in 387 and his remains were transferred to Kassiopi in Corfu in 602 in order to be saved from barbarian invasions. However this led to a problem of jurisdiction and custody for the holy relics, which was resolved by Pope Gregory I. Donatus's cult was widespread in the Middle Ages.

His feast day is April 30.

http://www.imparamythias.gr/OIDEEC_AAEIEIAEA/oideec_aaeieiaea.html

Well, I suppose that you have a very wide understanding of "Ethnic Greeks", beyond any historical standard use.

A large portion of South Italy was in the antiquity Greek-speaking and part of the Hellenistic world. That lots of centuries before Christ (we are speaking of of traces which date back up to the 8th century, i.e. the first historical traces in such areas): this, and only this, is the reason because part of the local population spoke and in few cases has still Greek as dialect.

In the early time of Christianity obviously South Italy was part of the Hellenistic world, but, even if they spoke Greek, the population was no more "Ethnic Greeks" than Origen in Alexandria was.

Christianity arrived and settled in South Italy well before than Constantinople was found as Roman empire second capital, and the "rite" in use in the first at least 5 centuries was not at all derived by the Rite of Constantinople (if you like to subdivide rites in families is such a early age, the liturgical uses were more similar to the ones in North Africa, i.e. Western).

After the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, about half of Italy naturally remained under the Byzantine empire. In the next 6 centuries the Byzantines lost first the North Italy (as Ravenna and Genoa), but they remained in South Italy up to 1071!!.

Of course when south Italy was still part of the Byzantine Empire (a core part, not a military possession), the liturgical uses were conformed to the one of Constantinople, and many population moved here and there into the Empire (which included also Greece, but of which Greece was a little part).

If you assume that having been part of the Hellenistic World and of the Byzantine Empire is enough for being "Ethnic Greeks", than half of Italy is "Ethnic Greeks". (I'm from the other half of Italy, but even if all my grand-grand parents were Roman Citizen, I find quite ridiculous to consider myself "Ethnic Ancient Roman" )

As I wrote it is true that there were some (a few) individuals who escaped in the 17-18 century from the areas occupied by the Ottomans who strongly supported (and created) the civil power of the E.P.: these literate persons came to Italy, mainly in Rome/Venice, and were intellectually very important. They spoke Greek (however a Greek more modern of the middle-age Greek of the Greek speaking communities in South Italy) but it is hardly to say that they were "Ethnic Greeks": for example St Athanasius in Rome was led in the 17 century by bishops from Ochrid, which you know is not in Greece.

In the 17-18 century there was still a "Hellenistic" population in South Italy which spoke Greek and used the Byzantine rite (with some ancient peculiarities): this group, who had as own expression the Grottaferrata abbey, lived in remote areas and was almost not influential, and was unrelated to the few imported Greeks of Saint Athanasius in Rome. Even if they later were assimilated to the Roman rite, they were important for the Albanians to be accepted and allowed to maintain their Greek rite, a rite that when the Albanians of Lungro and Piana came to Italy was already known and used (by centuries) in areas.

****
However the them "Greek" in words as "Greek Catholic" has nothing to do with the ethnicity of Greece, not with the "Greek" population of South Italy or with the escaped few intellectuals who came in Italy.
It was the term used in the 15-16-17 century by Rome to indicate what we today label as "Byzantine Rite". That is obvious: the same term "Greek Rite" (or even Greeks to indicate who used such a rite) is found for example the the Latin documents of such age about the Union of Brest (or of Uzhhorod or of related documents), even if there no one spoke Greek, nor was "Ethnic Greek", nor used Greek as liturgical language.

(the term "Rite of Costantinople" is a modern scholar invention, while the term "Byzantine Rite" derives from the naming of the "Middle-Age Easter Roman Empire" as "Byzantine Empire", a linguistic use which arose in the 18th century !!! (the Byzantines called themselves "Romans", not "Byzantine"!!!) Because the Roman Curia needed from Florence to the next century to give a name to the "Byzantine Rite", the name used was "Greek Rite". When the Council of Florence speak of Greeks, it meant generally all population who used the "Byzantine Rite", regardless if they were "Ethnic Greeks" or celebrated in Greek)

Axios! Per shume vjet, o Kryezot! Many years to him on his election to lead the Diocese at this critical time. Best wishes to all of the communities in the Diocese! They have been growing steadily with many new immigrants over the past 20 years, primarily from from Albania and Romania-Moldova, as well as with Latin-Rite Italians either regaining a lost family heritage or simply being drawn to Greek-Rite worship.

Andrew, my brother,

Wonderful to see a post from you! Prayers that all is well with you. Your presence here on a regular basis is missed.

Many years,

Neil

This morning the the new Bishop of Eparchy of Lungro (Italy), S.E.Rev.ma Donato Oliverio has been consecrated bishop in his cathedral.

The principal consecrator was S.E.Rev.ma Ercole Lupinacci, the previous bishop of Lungro, who actually prayed alone all the consacratory prayers. The co-consecrator were Mons. Cyril Vasil’, the secretary of the Congregation for the Oriental Churches and Mons. Salvatore Nunnari, the Apostolic Administrator.

The liturgy was strictlu performed in Byzantine rite, without any concession to the Latin uses, such us the laying of hands by other bishops we had unfortunately seen sometime in the past. The consacratory prayers were in Italian, while the liturgy was performed in Greek.

A curiosity: Mons Oliverio now belongs to a small line of apostolic succession which derives, through the Bulgarian Exarcate, to Joachim II Patriarch of Constantinople.
This is the third and smaller apostolic line of the Byzantine Rite Eastern Catholic bishops which don't derives from Rome, after the Melkite line and the Jeremias II Tranos' line.

Thanks for the update from Italy.

Here the video of today episcopal consecration in Lungro Italy: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/23689550
The consecration core is at minute 44 (in Italian). The anaphora starts at minute 1:50 (in Greek).
The first 25 minutes more or less are without sound. Unfortunately there are sometimes the voices of the TV commentators.