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Here is the dumb question of the century --

Is it possible to forgive someone but continue to dislike them as a person? I ask this because I kind of assume that if I really have forgiven
someone, then I would have some sort of positive feeling for that person. To me, the fact that I continue to dislike the person seems to indicate to me that my "forgiveness" is only superficial at best, and therefore, possibly even not forgiveness at all.

I say this with regard to the Blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist. Obviously, if I am in a state of not having forgiven everyone I know, and I am harboring dislike towards another person, then to partake of the Body and Blood of the Lord is to eat and drink condemnation unto myself.

There are a number of persons also whom I just do not like for the way they live their lives. They are politicians and I find myself, when I see them on the TV, muttering things like "dirtbag" "lying scum" and other such not so nice things. These people are pro-aborts and generally dishonest people.

Is being a true Christian that I would find myself to have kind feelings even about such as these?

I never had to wrestle with this as a Protestant because after all, "once saved -- always saved", no matter what the state of my life. So as long as I didn't indulge in any of the "big" sins (you know, unmarried sex, drinking, tobacco, movies,
long hair on men) then I could believe I was just "right as rain" with God.

Don't work dat way in the real Church.

Your thoughts on this will be appreciated. I intend to talk to my priest about this also, but desire the multitude of counselors and wisdom found at this site.

Brother Ed -

Chief of Sinners

Glory be to Jesus Christ!

Dear Ed:

The ability to forgive is a divine atribute which we appropriate through Grace, the life of the Holy Trinity. When God forgives he forgets; what would be do if God failed to totally forgive us, which implies a total forgetting? After you have forgiven someone you must act as if they had never done anything wrong and grant them a clean slate - just as God does for us in the Holy Mystery of Repentance and Confession.

If this person is a notorious sinner and is unrepentant you must forgive them, forget all they have done against you, pray for them, evangelize as best you can, and seek their salvation. This does not imply that you must participate in the same social situations as they do or hang around them when they are with the wrong crowd. You do have an obligation to ask them if they would like to attend Divine Services, learn about the Gospel, pray with you at home (at the ikon corner),receive religious instruction, and meet other faithful Orthodox or Catholic friends who uphold Gospel values.

With true forgiveness there is a love which leaves out a dislike for anyone. Our only hatred must be for the Devil and the Kingdom of this World not the human victims of Satan's Kingdom. Your Father Confessor needs to help you be purged of this in the Mystery of Repentance. But I am glad to assist you my brother.

Again I think you know the answers to your questions. In regard to the reception of the Most Holy Eucharist: you must be at peace with all men before you partake of the Sacred Mysteries. You MAY not receive the Body and Blood of the Eucharist without at least the intention of seeking reconcilation with your neighbor; again this is up to your Father Confessor who will Judge the matter. But most Confessors will say that at a minimum you must have the intention to reconcile with them and at the most you must go to them and seek peace and forgiveness. The reception of the Most Blessed Eucharist will, as you have said, only serve to our condemnation if we have not reconciled with our neighbor if we have committed a grave act against them.

With regard to politics it has always been the Catholic and Orthodox thing to stand for righteousness and Gospel standards in society. The promotion of the Social Kingship of Christ is to be one of the main focuses of the new evangelization. Promoting the Law of the Church in civil society is a Gospel mandate. We are obligated to do so by Divine Law. And so with regard to political candidates who promote the 'culture of death' we must seek to put into office ones that uphold the higher Law. We must pray the repentance of those who promote error, but not shrink in our duty to seek that they never get into office.

In Eastern Christianity we seek the restoration of the image of the Trinity in ourselves through the process called deification and theosis. Through Grace, the uncreated Divine Energy of God, that perfect image is uncovered as we cooperate with Him, through prayer, attendance at Divine Services, Home prayer, acts of charity, and good works, towards the eventual reality of spending eternity with Him forever in Heaven. Again as you have found the Church of Christ, His true Mystical Body, and are incorportated into the Vineyard of the Trinity, you will be led by His Spirit to do the right thing - by his unwritten Law in the Heart. My final recommendation is to seek a good Father Confessor and if you have one seek his spiritual help. If you cannot find one we will be here to help

In Christ,


Robert

Brother Ed,

We are called to love our brothers and our sisters. Nothing says we have to like them. Love is a decision to seek the best for the other. It is not a feeling! It is quite possible to forgive a person without liking them. We forgive because it is good for them and for us.

Sometimes reading Scripture in English deprives us of the full meaning of the story. In the Gospel where Jesus asks Peter three times if Peter loves him there is an interesting shift in wording. Jesus asks Peter "Do you love (agapeo) me?" Peter replies, "You know that I love (philios) you, Lord." Finally, the third time, Jesus used philios instead of agapeo. The shift from self-giving love to brotherly love is an interesting dynamic in the story revealing far more than the English version can.

The reason I tell you this is that we can love someone with agape love without any sense of liking the person (which is a form of philios love).

Edward, deacon and sinner

[ 09-12-2002: Message edited by: FrDeaconEd ]

Dear Brother Ed,

There's a saying in Ukrainian that goes: We are called to love everyone - from a distance.

There's another one that goes: The Russians are truly our brothers - we can choose our friends.

Alex

Okay. Let me complicate this a bit, now that I have a few good answers.

It's my wife.

I am having a hard time feeling much of anything other than contempt for her. Lots of problems over a lot of years. Lots of hurt feelings.

Yes, we are in counseling. No, she does not and will not go to church with me.

The reason I tell you this is that we can love someone with agape love without any sense of liking the person (which is a form of philios love).

This is confusing to me. I cannot comprehend loving someone without liking them personally. Fr. Deacon Edward, could you take my situation and show me how this plays out in reality? What would it mean for me to show love to her without being able to like her?

Brother Ed -- sad, confused, and very tired of it all.

Dear Brother Ed,

Some years ago, a few important members of my family had a problem with my mother. Mind you, there was no truth in any of their accusations or complaints, but they thought there was, and so they persecuted my mother to no end, so it seemed to me. She was their sister, but they treated her like dirt. Finally, I couldn't take it anymore. I gave them all the chance to do some soul searching and get some reconciliation going. When they were stubborn and didn't want to admit any wrong, I wrote them off. Completely. I acted for the most part like they weren't a part of me, like they didn't exist. And they knew that's how I saw them. And I knew they were so sad that things had come to this.

Eventually, while not apologising, their attitudes seemed to change, and God warmed my heart. They seemed to treat us better, and I warmed to them again.

But more recently, when something came up, these things were brought up again, and I learned that nothing really had changed. They still believed all the things they had believed before, they still stood by everything they did, even though I was able to prove them wrong. After so many years, nothing changed...the attitude change was nothing more than a facade. So I was hurt. And I have written them off again. This time, I don't know how long it will last. I am older, and in some ways, I am less tolerant of this garbage than I was in years past. Back then I was willing to do anything for the sake of peace, but now I know that no lasting peace can exist alongside untruth. So I'm more patient, and I guess that means I'm more willing to wait instead of rush into reconciling.

One thing that is different this time, as compared to the first time I wrote everyone off, is that I'm able to love without liking. For me, it means treating everyone, even my "enemies", with Christian charity. I try to avoid situations that might aggravate me, and so I don't really talk to too many people. When people want to talk to me, I treat them with respect. We talk, we may laugh, but I know not to expect too much. I can sometimes see the sadness in their eyes -- I may be talking with my uncle about a motorcycle across the street and he'll have tears roll down his face -- but I know nothing lasting can be done without honesty and trust, and it will be a while for that to grow. Sometimes it burns my pride that, even when I don't want to be nice, I still feel a nudge in my soul to be nice. But I know this is what God would want from me. I know He'll make things better if that is His will, and it will happen in His time. Meanwhile, I do what I can, and pray to God for the rest.

What's the relevance of all this to your situation? I don't know. It is one thing to be this way with your uncles and aunts whom you don't often see. It is quite another way to be this way with one's spouse. So I don't know if anything I just wrote is worth anything at all. Perhaps it was pointless to write this. At any rate, pray, seek help from counseling and maybe your priest/spiritual father, pray, hang in there, get support from good friends, and pray. You and your wife will be in my prayers.

Brother Ed:

When you say you feel contempt for yur wife then I feel fairly certain we can assume you have not only not forgiven her, you have not forgiven yourself. Contempt arises from self pride and that is a serious problem.

You ask how you can love someone without liking them. The fact that you ask the question says you don't understand what love is -- you are confusing it with a feeling. You love someone by seeking the best for them. That doesn't have anything to do with feelings.

There is a man at my parish that knows everything -- just ask him, he'll tell you. Of course, he's actually wrong most of the time, but that doesn't slow him down. I don't like him. However, on Sunday he comes to me for communion and I give him the best I have, the Body of Christ. I offer my prayers for him. When his wife was killed in an auto accident I prayed with him, I sat with him, I cried with him. I still don't like him, but I love him.

Edward, deacon and sinner

When you say you feel contempt for your wife then I feel fairly certain we can assume you have not only not forgiven her, you have not forgiven yourself. Contempt arises from self pride and that is a serious problem.

Indeed.

I have confessed this attitude to my priest. Many times. Think he is getting tired of hearing it.

Would you, if you were in my priest's place, suggest I abstain from receiving Jesus until I get my heart right?

Of course, without the "medicine of immortality" for my sick soul, how can I do that?

Quandry. Don't like quandries.

Brother Ed

Brother Ed,

Life is nothing but qunadries! May I suggest a scripture passage for you to reflect on, to consider, to take to heart?


Notice that God doesn't forgive our sins for our sake -- he does it for his! We forgive others because, if we don't, we tear ourselves up. This is precisely what you are describing! Until you can forgive her you cannot have true peace yourself. In the Eastern Church when the priest gives communion it is "for the forgiveness of sin and life everlasting." But just before we receive communion we tell God to forgive us in exactly the same way as we forgive others. If you can't forgive your wife God cannot forgive you -- and the problem continues. In fact, you make a mockery of the Eucharist by denying the healing power that is present in it.

You must start by making a decision that you will forgive. Then do it. Then "let go and let God." He will take the burden from you -- but you have to let go! As long as you cling to your problem God is powerless to do anything with you.

For your own sake, forgive!

Edward, deacon and sinner

[ 09-12-2002: Message edited by: FrDeaconEd ]