www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall NUNS ON THE BUS

More like for every five or six Sister Campbells there is one Mother Angelica (although some would say that Mother Angelica is a sui generis force of nature).

As for the intestinal fortitude of the USCCB collectively, there is a verse in the Bible that describes them very well: "And they all fled" (Mk. 14:50). Bishops are not selected for their big ones, but for their ability to keep their noses clean and balance the books. A few manage to transcend expectations, but most fit the classic definition of "tames": conflict-averse, passive-aggressive compromisers.

I would be willing to bet money that orthodox nuns are far more numerous than heterodox ones. I don't know what the statistics are so I can't quote any, but vocations to orthodox religious communities are on the rise whereas vocations to communities of the "nuns on the bus" variety are notably on the decline.



Have they, indeed? Try telling the President that. I'm sure he'll be relieved to hear it.


Sounds just like their flocks.

roman interloper

i am typing in small caps so as not to appear as angry as i really am at my fellow catholics.

can you answer some questions for me?

how many catholics voted for obama last time?

how many catholics will vote for obama this time?

does obama support abortion?


you state that the catholics that support abortion are "renegade catholics" and i am stating that they are mainstream catholics - the majority of catholics

from the statistics i've read - the majority of catholics support obama (= support abortion)

you cannot divorce the (supposed) good a political party claims (helping the poor) from the bad it supports (abortion)

well ... i guess you can!

my addiction to this forum and my passion for the cause of the unborn combined with my very poor communication skills results in poorly written posts - and also very very ineffective in persuasion - but man i am very frustrated. frustrated that catholics will vote again - in support of abortionists - and i feel very desperate about that situation.

frustrated that catholics can use their intellect to get around the abortion issue in elections.

frustrated by sr. simone campbell - how can she justify her position?


pardon me for saying so - but your absolute rigidity in the infallibility of the roman catholic hierarchy astounds me - you appear to go to any lengths to make the bishops look like benevolent shephards of their flock without any responsibility or accountability to catholic teaching ( is abortion wrong or not?)

these infallible bishops will face the same judgement day we all will when God asks

what did you do to protect the least of your brothers?

Bishop #1 Timothy Dolan

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/car...-white-tie-fundraiser-health-care-causes

http://www.all.org/article/index/id/MTA5MzQ/

this article explains the double standard that Cardinal Dolan lives with on a regular basis.

he talks the talk - but does not walk the walk.

by endorsing obama (at any level) the average catholic takes it as a signal that they can vote obama (abortion) because even the cardinal supports him.

I couldn't say. We have secret ballots in America. Exit polls indicate that quite a few voted for him, however. In any event, what's your point?



My crystal ball is in the shop, I'm afraid.



I understand that he does support a woman's right to procure one, yes.



I can emphatically state that the Moon is made of cheese, but that doesn't make it so. The Confederates were in rebellion against the Union; the fact that there were millions of them doesn't mean that they were not in rebellion. Many of the angels, we are told, rebelled against God. Would their large numbers make them any less rebellious or "mainstream"?


I disagree with your premise that voting for Barack Obama is necessarily equivalent to "supporting abortion". There are plenty of other reasons one might vote for Barack Obama over John McCain or Mitt Romney that have absolutely nothing to do with the issue of abortion. I'm not saying that any of those issues merits overlooking the issue of abortion, mind you, but to insist that all those who voted for Obama did so because they support abortion is more than a bit judgmental.


Agreed. That goes for all political parties, however, not just the Democratic party.



Which position? And who cares? Why is Sister Simone Campbell's position so important to you. She's one American who speaks for herself and for herself, alone. Simone Campbell does not speak for the Roman Catholic Church.



I can pardon you for saying so, but I cannot fathom how you have reached the conclusion, based on anything that I have written, that I rigidly insist on the infallibility of the Roman Catholic hierarchy in America! I think, also, that you find yourself projecting at the moment. It is you who are going out of your way to accuse them all of being supporters of abortion, without providing any evidence of that wildly unjust claim! Your sole argument is that they have cooperated with Democratic politicians in the past with respect to other matters!


So will we all, my friend.

Here is the logic

Obama supports abortion

Sr Simone Cambell speaks to how great Obama is

Catholics hear her ...

Catholics in turn are justified to vote for Obama.


Timothy Dolan has the same problem

He has been courting the Obama Adminstration since it's inception.

The average catholic voter see's his activity as a tacit endorsement of the anticatholic obama adminstration.

You can't see that?

by the way ... Timothy Dolan is the head of the USCCB.
There is a petition to remove Obama from the fundraising Catholic Charities dinner that Obama was invited to by Dolan.

Is that not a confusing message at best to the catholic voter?

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

I am going to go through the entire USCCB for you and report to you on each bishop - how they endorse Obama either overtly or covertly. Right now Timothy Dolan is the focal point.

Before anyone is tempted to post some of his statements about how he has confronted Obama on his anticatholic stance - answer the question Is this invitation to the Catholic Charities dinner a double standard or confusing to the average catholic?

Is the NUN on the BUS confusing to catholics and a double standard or not?

You are exactly correct. There must be some modern bishops who transcend expectations but I know of none. There have been notable courageous bishops in the past...the distant past...but I don't know of any very recently.

Timothy Dolan

"While there may be an openness to respond to some of our concerns, we reserve judgment on the details until we have them," Cardinal-designate and Conference president Timothy Dolan said.

"Today's decision to revise how individuals obtain services that are morally objectionable to religious entities and people of faith is a first step in the right direction," he added. "We hope to work with the Administration to guarantee that Americans' consciences and our religious freedom are not harmed by these regulations."

February 10, 2012

CONFUSING!!!!

oops all caps

http://cara.georgetown.edu/Presidential%20Vote%20Only.pdf


presidential election polling of the catholic vote

*** see 2008

That would be logical if...

1. Sister Simone Campbell spoke of how great Obama is (she didn't).

2. All Catholics were Stepford wives whose minds are controlled by the voice of Sister Simone Campbell (we are not).

3. Sister Simone Campbell had asked Catholics to vote for Obama (she did not).

Since none of those things is so, I'm afraid there is no logic to your logic. You're trying to force 2 and 2 and 2 to add up to 36.



I like to think of him as Timothy Cardinal Dolan.


??? Has he been doing that in an alternate universe or something? Can you, perhaps, produce some evidence along with these wild charges you slam down left and right?


No. No I can't...and neither can the Obama administration. Ask President Obama if he counts Cardinal Dolan amongst his supporters.


Timothy Cardinal Dolan, is, yes.


It could be confusing, I suppose, to Catholic voters who allow themselves to become easily confused because they refuse to educate themselves before forming a faulty opinion based upon a lack of information concerning any given issue.

Every four years, both presidential candidates are invited to the Al Smith Dinner, regardless of what either of them stands for or believes. Why, suddenly, Cardinal Dolan is now supposed to be a supporter of abortion because Barack Obama was invited by the dinner's organizers, as if Obama were the first liberal pro-choice Democrat who ever attended the event is entirely beyond me.

Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and George W. Bush supported abortion in cases of rape and incest and they were all invited to the Al Smith Dinners. Where is the outcry in their case? Or is it okay to support abortion a little bit, as long as you're a Republican?


Everything's simple when you remove most of the facts.


Knock yourself out. Just make sure your facts actually point to your conclusions, otherwise you will have wasted an awful lot of time.


Are you just going to keep on insisting that the Nuns on the Bus somehow speak for the official Catholic Church over and over again as if doing so will eventually make it true?

RI

you see nothing wrong with the quote your beloved Cardinal made on Feb 10, 2012

I for one see a huge problem.

How do you "work" with an administration that keeps lying to catholics and enticing them with "goodies" only to turn on them after you have used them

Proof
1. "work" = Timothy Cardinal Dolan statement that he desires to work with the administration

2. Lying to catholics = Bark Stupak Presidential use of Executive Order promising NO ABORTION IN OBAMACARE


http://www.lifenews.com/2012/09/04/...s-executive-order-on-obamacare-abortion/

3. Cardinal Dolan inviting Obama to Catholic Charities Fundraiser despite the fact that he is anti catholic to the core

= HHS MANDATE to make Catholic Institutions provide abortion services to any employees who menstruate.

Can you offer any proof about your arguments?


Simone Campbell was addressed the DNC - tell me you don't really believe that was solely for her benefit.

Surely you are not that simple a person to think she is not trying to coerce catholics into voting for Obama

The way to handle that as a Catholic (in my humble opinion ) would have been for her to NOT SPEAK to the DNC in protest of the HHS mandate and Abortion rulings in Obamacare.

Timothy Cardinal Dolan - has been asked by several groups - Priests for Life Father Pavone - to un - invite the President to the fundraising dinner ( a gay filled evening of laughter and fun all the while our fetuses are being cut up dismembered and mutilated in the abortion clinics across America)

It would be prudent for him to omit Obama from the Catholic evening as a protest of the HHS mandate and the Abortion law known as Obamacare.

Cardinal Dolan - however - needs his liberal New York Democratic Pro Choice Catholics (otherwise know as stepford catholics) for donations to his church and does not want to lose the money (otherwise - why else would he invite the President?)

Since you have not answered satisfactorily on Cardinal Dolan as to why he creates these confusing double standard actions and statements with facts I will remained focused on Cardinal Dolan as the object and focal point of the Catholic Problem.

By the way there is a petition you can sign online to pressure Cardinal Dolan to remove Obama from the engagement
Priests for Life website

In fact Cardinal Timothy Dolan seems to be awash in controversy


Timothy Dolan paid $20,000 to pedophile priests to leave the priesthood

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miche...a-lot-of-explaining-to-do_b_1564042.html

Timothy Dolan invites Obama to the Smith Foundation Dinner

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ar...rdinal-dolan-invited-obama-to-speak-at-f

Timothy Dolan mishandling sexual abuse scandal

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/17/nyregion/17dolan.html?pagewanted=all


Timothy Dolan confusing statements about Paul Ryan

http://www.all.org/article/index/id/MTA5MzQ/

No Dinner for Obama pdf file ... put in the collection basket every sunday until it hurts

http://www.all.org/upload/2012/08/08/SmithDinnerAppealCard.pdf

The following Video will help us to recall what a MONSTER President Obama really is.

Anti-catholic is an understatement

haydukovich:

I judge it to be the better part of wisdom to end my participation in this exchange and to wish you peace.