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Originally Posted by SamB
Antv, would you please provide the Google Books link to the Arabic book you got these from?

Here it is (hoping not to have done confusion):
- images 1,2,3: http://www.google.com/books?id=oGjVAAAAMAAJ
- image 5: http://www.google.com/books?id=jospAAAAYAAJ
- image 6: http://www.google.com/books?id=MrEZAAAAMAAJ
- images 7,8: http://www.google.com/books?id=POnfAAAAMAAJ
- image 9: http://www.google.com/books?id=JLAZAAAAMAAJ
- image 4 is from Machriq #11 I don't have here ready the link
(PS to read these links you shall connect to Google from US
or to use a US anonimyzer)

Thanks again to all of you who solved the issue !!


A question for who can ready very fluently ancient Arabic. I'm looking for the name of the Consecrator on Jan 1820 of the Maronite Patriarch Joseph Hobaish [en.wikipedia.org] (actually here stops the Maronite apostolic succession for what I know) Perhaps the solution is at page 1232 (.pdf pag) of http://www.google.com/books?id=QnUpAAAAYAAJ that is referred to by the Graf in the ''Geschichte der christlichen arabischen Literatur'' in relation to the consecration of an other contemporary bishop.

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Antv,

The latest issue of Sophia, the journal of the Melkite Eparchy of Newton, has an article by my good friend, Father Archimandrite John (Azar), with brief detail on each of the Melkite patriarchs. It's accompanied by small mosaic representations of each of them.

If this would be of assistance to you in your endeavors, pm a mailing address to me and I'll send a copy off to you.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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antv, I can't find the page you mention. If you send it to me as a PDF then I should be able to tell you, who consecrated the bishop. Assuming such content is in the page. smile

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Originally Posted by Matta
antv, I can't find the page you mention. If you send it to me as a PDF then I should be able to tell you, who consecrated the bishop. Assuming such content is in the page. smile
Thank a lot. You can access to the .pdf (extract from al_Mashriq 1904 v7) at this link [acioc-milano.org].
I've seen that Patriach Holbaish is referred to at page 1104 (n. 6 of the .pdf).

Last edited by antv; 04/30/11 06:47 AM.
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antv,

See my reply to your pm, for a link that may serve your purposes.

Many years,

Neil


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Thanks for the PDF.
Unfortunately, it doesn't say who consecrated him. It talks of Joseph Hobaish naming another (Chabib ibn Aboud) to the episcopacy.
I read backwards and forwards from that spot, but cannot see any mention of Joseph Hobaish being consecrated bishop by someone.

By the way: any time a bishop is mentioned, it mentions who called him to the episcopacy or the diocese, to which he was sent. It never mentions the consecrator -- at least in the few pages I read.

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Originally Posted by Matta
Thanks for the PDF.
Unfortunately, it doesn't say who consecrated him. It talks of Joseph Hobaish naming another (Chabib ibn Aboud) to the episcopacy.
I read backwards and forwards from that spot, but cannot see any mention of Joseph Hobaish being consecrated bishop by someone.

By the way: any time a bishop is mentioned, it mentions who called him to the episcopacy or the diocese, to which he was sent. It never mentions the consecrator -- at least in the few pages I read.


Thank a lot !
I hoped it could contain the solving key, but anyway thank a lot: you helped me much, and now my researches shall continue

in Christ, antv

Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
antv,

See my reply to your pm, for a link that may serve your purposes.

Many years,

Neil
Thank a lot, I've written you a PM

Christos anesti, antv


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Hello Antv,

Let me know if you need any help in translation of these pictures or finding any information regarding any of them.

They are all from Syria/greater Syria, and one of them (Patriarch Mikael de Jaroueh) is related to me.

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I try again to beg your help in Arabic

Again the previous question (on a new document) for who can ready very fluently ancient Arabic. I'm looking for the name of the Consecrator on Jan 1820 of the Maronite Patriarch Joseph Hobaish [en.wikipedia.org] (actually here stops the Maronite apostolic succession for what I know)

The text that I got and perhaps has the solution in the History of Maronites by Joseph Debs (1905): here the page about patriarch Hobaish: http://www.acioc-milano.org/vari/547-548DebsMaronites.pdf

Is there written who in 1820 consecrated Hobaish as bishop of Tripoli ?

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According to your source [acioc-milano.org], Yūsuf Ḥubaysh was born Yaʿqūb Ibn al-Shaykh Jawān Ḥubaysh. Bishop Anṭūn al-Khāzin raised him (رقاه raqāhu) to the priesthood on 26 June 1814. Patriarch Yuḥannā al-Ḥalū raised him (رقاه raqāhu) to the See of Tripoli on 30 January 1820. When Patriarch Yuḥannā al-Ḥalū died on 12 May 1823, Bishop Yūsuf Ḥubaysh was elected patriarch on 25 May 1823.

Maybe someone who knows Christian Arabic terminology very well can tell us the exact meaning of the verb رقى raqá, but I think it refers to both ordination to the presbyterate and consecration to the episcopate.

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Originally Posted by Latin Catholic
According to your source [acioc-milano.org], Yūsuf Ḥubaysh was born Yaʿqūb Ibn al-Shaykh Jawān Ḥubaysh. Bishop Anṭūn al-Khāzin raised him (رقاه raqāhu) to the priesthood on 26 June 1814. Patriarch Yuḥannā al-Ḥalū raised him (رقاه raqāhu) to the See of Tripoli on 30 January 1820. When Patriarch Yuḥannā al-Ḥalū died on 12 May 1823, Bishop Yūsuf Ḥubaysh was elected patriarch on 25 May 1823.

Maybe someone who knows Christian Arabic terminology very well can tell us the exact meaning of the verb رقى raqá, but I think it refers to both ordination to the presbyterate and consecration to the episcopate.
Thank a lot !!

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Again I beg your help in Arabic

The point is to trace back the apostolic succession of the Maronite bishops listing all episcopal consecration. Solved Patriarch Hubaysh, now the apostolic succession of the present patriach H.B. al-Rahi trace back to Patriach George Rizqallah Beseb'ely (جرجس الثاني رزق الله البسبعلي) who reigned 1657-1650.

How consecrated he bishop? No awswer in the classic Dib nor in the Dau. Perhaps some information is in the book by Joseph Debs, in Arabic: here [kobayat.org] (perhaps at chapter 11). But I cannot at all read Arabic, nor goggle translate works with such calligraphy.

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Originally Posted by antv
Again I beg your help in Arabic

The point is to trace back the apostolic succession of the Maronite bishops listing all episcopal consecration. Solved Patriarch Hubaysh, now the apostolic succession of the present patriach H.B. al-Rahi trace back to Patriach George Rizqallah Beseb'ely (جرجس الثاني رزق الله البسبعلي) who reigned 1657-1650.

How consecrated he bishop? No awswer in the classic Dib nor in the Dau. Perhaps some information is in the book by Joseph Debs, in Arabic: here [kobayat.org] (perhaps at chapter 11). But I cannot at all read Arabic, nor goggle translate works with such calligraphy.
You mean when was he ordained bishop? According to your source (section 10 #62 p. 360) 25 July 1656, by Patriarch John Bawab Safrawy “to be an auxiliary for him in the administration of the affairs of the patriarchate and when this patriarch passed away on the 23 of December in the aforesaid year the bishops and notables gathered on the ninth day after his decease i.e. in January of the year 1657 and they elected him patriarch and he sent Fr. John the Carmelite [or: from Karmel] who was a resident at the Monastery of St. Elisha next to Bcharre to Rome and his companions with the petitions of rendering of submissiveness and the procurement of confirmation from the Roman Pontiff Pope Alexander VII and it happened that the aforesaid father died at his reaching Rome and the patriarch was compelled to renew the request and his confirmation was delayed to the year 1659.”

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thank you very much for your ansewer. I apologize readin it so late but you have been very usefull.
The text linked in above message has any information (date, consecrator) about the previousPatriarch, John Bawab Safrawy?

Last edited by antv; 11/25/13 06:13 AM.
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