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Originally Posted by jjp
Originally Posted by StuartK
Why is it that people have such a hard time understanding that being Pope requires one to belong to the Church of Rome? Is it that dumb "Catholic is Catholic" mentality?

I wondered how long it would take you.

And I concur, nobody wonders what would happen if the Archbishop of Milan was elected Patriarch of Antioch...
you had one appointed patriarch of Alexandria, who went to Vatican I to vote for papal infallibility.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paolo_Angelo_Ballerini

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Originally Posted by Pavloosh
Patriarch Sviatoslav is our Patriarch regardless of what any Russian says.
I wasn't aware that Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul I, Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI of Rome were Russian.

Seems that "one head" isn't speaking your language.

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Originally Posted by 8IronBob
Hmm. Maybe a Melkite Pope would be just as much worth the while, but I agree that Patriarch Sviatoslav seems to be a popular option. Either way would work out for the Eastern Rite.
A Melkite as bishop of Rome would be unproblematic, perhaps for all sides.

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IAlmisry,
I agree that the election of a Melkite Pope might seem less problematic than a Ukranian one. The Melkites seem to have a much different position vis-a-vis the Orthodox and eventual union than the Ukranians do. (After all, they have a different history.) I also think that a Melkite Pope would likely bring the commitments I hope the new pope will bring (the ones I mentioned above in my earlier post.) That said, I also doubt that a Melkite will be elected Pope, AND, in any case, I don't get a vote. smile So I don't really see much point in putting out candidates or feeling all that strongly about preferences.

StuartK,
I don't think the Roman Pope needs to be a Latin Christian, though I imagine it will be. Not only is it not required canonically, but there are plenty of historical examples--though not recent ones--of Eastern popes, Greeks and Syrians for example. I suppose I sort of go back and forth between wanting the papal office to reflect the global church on the one hand, and wanting the bishop of Rome to look more like the bishop of a city in Italy called Rome (and less like a global headquarters.) But then again, I don't get a vote...

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Is it even technically possible for the Bishop of Rome to not be a celebrant of the Roman-Latin Rites? Like, if a Byzantine Rite was elected, how would that go over? Would he have to be trained in the Latin Rite? I'm just curious.

Personally, I don't think we will see any diversity in this Conclave. I'm willing to bet the next Bishop of Rome will be Italian.

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EasternRomioi3,

As I understand it, the pope can presently celebrate the liturgy in any rite he wishes.

That said, I think the appropriate rite for the bishop of Rome to use generally is the rite of the Church of Rome. It really wouldn't matter what position he occupied before, or in what church.

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Quote
I don't think the Roman Pope needs to be a Latin Christian.

So, you are saying that the Papal ministry is unconnected to the Church of Rome. That's convenient. Why not just elect any bishop, and have him be Pope in whatever see he presently holds? That would be more democratic, certainly--the headquarters of the Church would move every decade or so (also keep those Curial hacks from getting too comfortable).

Of course, that would be wildly innovative--almost as innovative as thinking that the Pope need not belong to the clergy of the Church of Rome. Turns him into a Catholic Dalai Lama, which is just what Pope Benedict was trying to discourage.

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Originally Posted by IAlmisry
Originally Posted by jjp
Originally Posted by StuartK
Why is it that people have such a hard time understanding that being Pope requires one to belong to the Church of Rome? Is it that dumb "Catholic is Catholic" mentality?

I wondered how long it would take you.

And I concur, nobody wonders what would happen if the Archbishop of Milan was elected Patriarch of Antioch...
you had one appointed patriarch of Alexandria, who went to Vatican I to vote for papal infallibility.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paolo_Angelo_Ballerini

Seems silly to me.

Who's the current Latin Patriarch of Alexandria?

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That is not at all what I was saying--which is why I said a hypothetical eastern bishop elected bishop of Rome would/should preside over the liturgy using the rite of the church of Rome. I nowhere suggested a transferable, traveling primacy. I agree that it would be wildly innovative and very much an aggrandizement of the sort that Pope Benedict was trying to discourage. (I would think that should have been clear from what I said about wanting the pope to look more like the bishop of an Italian city called Rome.)

My point was more modest--namely that an easterner could be elected bishop of Rome. And indeed they have been.


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Originally Posted by EasternRomioi3
Is it even technically possible for the Bishop of Rome to not be a celebrant of the Roman-Latin Rites? Like, if a Byzantine Rite was elected, how would that go over? Would he have to be trained in the Latin Rite? I'm just curious.

Personally, I don't think we will see any diversity in this Conclave. I'm willing to bet the next Bishop of Rome will be Italian.

Well, I dunno about that... From some news stories I've been watching, our next Pope could even be from right here in our own backyard in the US of A.

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H.B. Cardinal Naguib, even if he suffered a stroke a the end of 2011, arrived to Rome today: here his photo: http://www.ansamed.info/ansamed/it/...forse-europeo-prossimo-papa_8349866.html

Thus we will have four Eastern Catholic in the conclave: H.B. Béchara Boutros Cardinal Raï (Maronite), H.B. Antonios Cardinal Naguib (Coptic), H.B. George Cardinal Alencherry (Syro-Malabarese), H.B. Baselios Cardinal Thottunkal (Syro-Malankarese)

4/115 = 3.5 %, while the Eastern Catholic population is only about 1.5% of the Catholics

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Originally Posted by antv
H.B. Cardinal Naguib, even if he suffered a stroke a the end of 2011, arrived to Rome today: here his photo: http://www.ansamed.info/ansamed/it/...forse-europeo-prossimo-papa_8349866.html

Thus we will have four Eastern Catholic in the conclave: H.B. Béchara Boutros Cardinal Raï (Maronite), H.B. Antonios Cardinal Naguib (Coptic), H.B. George Cardinal Alencherry (Syro-Malabarese), H.B. Baselios Cardinal Thottunkal (Syro-Malankarese)

4/115 = 3.5 %, while the Eastern Catholic population is only about 1.5% of the Catholics
it would have been more if only a little earlier: Card. Husar just became ineligible.

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While I think some of the arguments I've read as to why a prelate of the East cannot become pope are somewhat unconvincing, I would agree that the chances of the Western cardinals looking Eastward for the man to step into one of Gammarelli's three white soutanes are...somewhat slim. I think there is a chance, however. But I'm not sure I would be willing to bet much money on it.

Talk is talk and while it's often said that "he who enters the conclave a pope exits a cardinal," we know that often enough that simply isn't so. Ratzinger entered the conclave a pope an exited a pope. So did Montini, so did Pacelli. So there are some cardinals entering the conclaves as popes this time around, but none of them is an Eastern Rite cardinal. There is alot of talk about Ouellet of Quebec, of Tagle from Manila, Bergoglio from Buenos Aires, Turkson the Ghanaian, and a slew of Italians.

Of the list of the media "papabile", from what I've read, I'd be happy to see Tagle stay behind in Rome when the others go home. He stikes me as sincerely humble, honest, joyful, passionately concerned about the plight of the least fortunate among us, orthodox...a servant...a Christian. He somewhat reminds me of a Filipino John Paul I. He seems to have that charm, that authentic, forever-youthful Christian joy about him. I think his might be a very good face for the papacy, particularly after all the PR disasters the Church faced throughout the last pontificate.

Some have suggested that the election of Patriarch Sviatoslav would be taken by the Orthodox as something of an insult. We are to infer from that that the Orthodox are a monolith, it seems, and that there are none capable of recognizing that such an election would put an Eastern mind and heart at the head of the Catholic Church. Some Orthodox might see that as more signficant than a squabble over what his previous title may or may not have been.

Surely there will be closed minds that will always remain closed no matter what, East and West, Catholic and Orthodox. But are such minds always to be the focus of our concerns and the insurmountable obstacles to the healing of the Church? I hope not. I hope the cardinals will vote not their fears but their hopes. Now, what that will eventually mean amounts to mere speculation, of course, but speculation that is not useless as some say, but rather educational and instructive.

A papal interregnum is always a unique opportunity to learn more and to hope more. It's a fascinating moment no matter what anybody thinks about Catholicism or about the papacy or about what either of those words ought to mean. I find myself following it very closely and I'll be glued to the TV from the moment the white smoke begins to bellow from the chimney of the Sistine Chapel.

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With the problems of the bank, abuse and even distrust in the personal staff, the new pope will have to be a good executive, someone who can clean house.
But this is only one of several exceptional graces that the new pope will be called upon to exemplify. Vatican II is still in need of continued execution. Catechesis, confrontation of the evil social forces, continued reform of the Roman liturgy and some kind of alliance with the MP is all high on the list of the next pope.

I don't expect the issue of the Eastern Churches will command a lot of attention for at least a couple of years. Hopefully, the pope will find time to approve a new bishop of Passaic.

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Originally Posted by Paul B
With the problems of the bank, abuse and even distrust in the personal staff, the new pope will have to be a good executive, someone who can clean house.
But this is only one of several exceptional graces that the new pope will be called upon to exemplify. Vatican II is still in need of continued execution. Catechesis, confrontation of the evil social forces, continued reform of the Roman liturgy and some kind of alliance with the MP is all high on the list of the next pope.

I don't expect the issue of the Eastern Churches will command a lot of attention for at least a couple of years. Hopefully, the pope will find time to approve a new bishop of Passaic.


The article "Quo Vadis? Reflections on the shape of the church to come" by a Jesuit scholar,Fr James Hanvey, is a great read. To me,as an Orthodox Christian, Father James' essay is a reminder that the differences between our two communions are really not as irreconcilable as we think or argue about....

Reflections on the shape of the church to come... http://americamagazine.org/issue/article/shape-church-come

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