www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship The Other Sacramental Mysteries Introduction and Question

I have been reading and contributing to the forum discussions for a few weeks now. For a few years before, I have sometimes visited to listen in on conversations of interest to me. I am a Roman Catholic layman with a lasting attraction and sympathies to Eastern Christianity. I do not know if I will ever move--I may forever remain a Roman with eastern leanings and preferences on a number of things.

Recently, I learned that we are expecting another child, and this has prompted me to approach nearby EC parishes, which I haven't really done until now, despite my interest. I am starting simply by going to worship with them and 'checking them out.' My question is this: Given 1) I strongly prefer the Eastern practice of initiation, and 2) I have real worries/quibbles with the out-of-sequence practice that still prevails in the Latin church, 3) would I be wrong or wildly out of line (as a Latin) to ask that my next child be baptized in one of the EC parishes nearby, rather than in the local Latin parish? (Naturally, this assumes acquaintance with the parishes and their pastors themselves, which, like I said, I am only starting to make.) Does this ever happen? Or would I be throwing a curveball, or making a shocking faux pas? Might the EC priests be receptive, or wary, even offended?
Thanks for your any advice and or prayers you may offer,
Caleb

Canonically, your kid has to be baptized in your Church (assuming you are the father and not the mother). Of course, with canon law everything depends on what you can convince people to do. But consider: if you baptize your child in an Eastern Church, then he really should be raised Eastern, and if that's the case, maybe you should go along for the ride.

And if your ride along the potential journey is anything like mine (where i just dove in) it's quite a ride, plenty of bumps, but plenty of highs.

Welcome to the Forum!

Within the past 6 months we asked (again) this question, of a canon lawyer of the Melkite Catholic Church, and a canon lawyer of the Latin Church. Both had the same response, that the child may be baptised in any Catholic Church. The only permission required is that of the parish pastor who celebrates the Sacrament of Baptism.

Since you are a Latin Catholic your child will be canonically Latin, whether the child is Baptized in the Latin Church or in one of the other particular Churches, and that information, canonically Latin, is recorded on the baptismal record in the parish where the Baptism occurs.

In our situation the parents did not want the child to be Chrismated. Chrismation is another topic. Separating the Sacraments of Iniation, ie only Baptizing, may be something the EC priest would not want to do. Only the pastor involved can answer that part. But there is nothing in the EEOC and CIC canons to prohibit the Baptism in an EC Church. Both the ECC and the Latin Church canon lawyers we communicated with were clear on that.

As a matter of interest, likethethief: as a priest, I would not separate baptism from chrismation, and I can't imagine any priest would. If a child is baptised in the Eastern Church, then he or she must be considered baptised and 'confirmed', even if Latins don't quite understand afterward.

Thanks for the replies. The reason I would consider asking an Eastern priest to baptize my child is precisely because I prefer the Eastern practice of initiation. Chiefly, I don't want my kid communicated before he or she is confirmed. My oldest kid has already communicated but not yet confirmed and my youngest has only received baptism. If I approached an EC pastor about the child yet-to-be-born, I might also ask about completing the initiation of the other children too. Are there rites available for the sacrament of chrismation for those already baptized? (as exist, for example, in the Latin Church for receiving into full communion baptized Christians from other ecclesial communities.)

Why would you want to split your family between two Churches? You stated that you disagree with the sequence of initiation in the Roman Church, but your family IS Roman, so you should be obedient to its tradition.

Should you later decide to be Eastern Catholic you can petition with your whole family to change rites. I agree with Slavophile, a priest from another rite shouldn't baptise only; what's the point from an ecclesiastical point of view?

I wouldn't ask an Eastern priest to baptize my kid only--that's the whole point of why I'd ask an Eastern priest. (I think that issue of seeking baptism alone was introduced into the conversation simply as a reference to some past question from someone else. It has nothing to do with me or my questions.)

Moreover, I asked about my other kids precisely out of this concern for 'splitting the family up.' The question was about completing their respective initiations--'catching them up,' as it were. So far they've received the sacraments of initiation as they are usually performed in the Latin Church. My oldest already made her first communion. I didn't want her to receive the sacraments in that order either, but I didn't really have another choice at the time. My younger kid is only four and has only been baptized. Accordingly, he could still complete his initiation in the correct order. I was simply asking if there exist rites for this purpose.

Paul B, I'm not sure if you meant to imply that I am somehow being disobedient by asking my question or if I just took your comment the wrong way at first. Either way, the 'tradition' you claim I should obey represents a little more than a hundred years of doing things out of order. To my mind it constitutes an 'abuse' rather than a 'tradition.'

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I did read and understand your clarification about Chrismation and Eucharist.
I should have said Church discipline, not Tradition.

According to tradition as well as the UGCC particular Law, the integrity of the three Mysteries of Initiation cannot be compromised except in grave circumstances. Even then I know priests who have an emergency kit with a small bottle of baptismal water, a small vial of myro and a small vial of consecrated wine with which to touch to the lips.

I am usually the one deputed by the pastor to perform the baptismal preparation, and I explain to the Latin couple straight up that if they want Confirmation later on they are in the wrong place. I've known quite a few Latin families over the years that appreciated the theology and sequence of our Mysteries of Initiation and with the blessing of their Latin priest or bishop have had the children initiated in our Church.

I think the strangest request I had was from a lady who came to us to make the argument for baptism without Chrismation by trying to assert it was an emergency because her child, who was in perfect health, would have his soul placed in extreme danger by having a "Novus Ordo" priest perform the baptism. We held fast saying it was all three Mysteries or nothing in her case, and she went elsewhere.

Diak,
I would prefer the child we're expecting to receive all the sacraments of initiation in their integrity.

My only question about separating them relates to my other two kids whose initiation has already begun. Do rites exist for completing the initiation of my 4 year old son, who's already been baptized? Or my 10 year old daughter, who only lacks chrismation?

The service books have allowances for completion of the Mysteries of Initiation if only Baptism had been previously conferred. Again, if you are Latin, for the Chrismation/Communion part it is probably a good idea to let your Latin priest know you are considering this since your children will be absent from the classes and other preparation that might go along with this at the Latin parish.

We never changed rites, but have been at an EC parish for several years.

We ended up with all four daughters Chrismated at the same time at Sunday Divine Liturgy--and my eldest had already had a couple of her on baptized & Chrismated (she had changed ritual before crowning).

Ditto that. Still canonically Latin Rite, but regularly attend Ruthenian Byzantine Divine Liturgies, Matins, Vespers, etc...

Same here; and I've tried to follow most of the norms, or traditions, within the Ruthenian Church, or the greater Byzantine rite, particularly as I look to abbamoses.com