www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Altar Girls????

You know it, Brian! "I'm am" right there with you! :p

Oh Lemko!

You are my tormentor on this forum!!! ) (was that spelled right??)

I just expected one of the more randy posters here to ask "Alter girls? No thank you, I like them just the way they are!"

Axios

LOL, that was naughty.

ChristTeen287

Now in this same subforum "Byz. Faith & Worship" there is a good discussion of why females are canonically prohibited from SERVING at the altar. Check that out for some good explanations of why there should be no "altar girls."

In Christ.

Odo, you're a dyslexic too??? Join the club. When I make typos I sometimes feel so alone. Now I don't.

It is officially allowed in the Latin rite churches with the bishop's permission. I have no problem with it one way or another. Same thing if it were ever officially allowed in our Byzantine rite churches of whatever sort...if the canons and eparchs allow it, then God bless the servers, boys or girls. Just follow the rules. Don

Don, you make perfect sense.

I have trouble with Andrew's post because of confusion of tense. "females ARE [present tense] canonically prohibited ...there SHOULD BE [future tense] no 'altar girls.'"

Axios

Oh Brian!
You know I'm just teasing you because I like you.

Not tormenting! :p

Dear Axios,

Consider this sentence and tell us again if "should be" is always future tense:

"At this time there should be seven green pens and three red pens in my pocket."

In Christ.

Andrew,

Thank you for the clarification. Now I understand.

Axios

In RC parishes, yes, altar girls are a common sight. I will tell you what's improved things considerably whether altar girls or boys are present, and that is enough training so that gestures and postures of all the servers are done reverently and unhurriedly, also 'in sync' with one another.
I don't know if anyone can stop them all from wearing those dreadful high- top athletic shoes to go to the altar, but I wish that 'nice' shoes would be worn instead, to complement the reverent ways in which I have seen them serve.
I think it was a new priest associate in this particular parish who insisted on proper reverence which improved matters there ... except, as I say, for the shoes ...
Best wishes to all from
c of s

This is something I find very interesting and very puzzling with regard to altar servers in Roman Catholic parishes:

I'm a member of a teen Catholic board, and many teens there said that, as altar servers, they often passed out during the Mass. I was totally baffled and asked why in the world this would happen, to which some replied "I think it was all that kneeling on those marble steps." This is a very vague and completely nonsensical answer to something that is apparently quasi-common.

Has anyone else heard of this?

ChristTeen287

Brothers and Sisters:

The whole phenomenon of altar girls in the Latin Church has come about under the guise of being fair to girls. It has also been argued that it is to show that we are all sons of God by Baptism. In reality, those who have pushed for this innovation hope that eventually the sight of women in the sanctuary will cause people not to be disturbed when some dissident bishop ordains the first woman in the Catholic Church. The women's ordination crowd is not too hidden in this push.

Already we have stories of parents who are loudly complaining that their daughters are good enough to serve at Liturgy and that they should now be allowed to enter the seminary and be ordained.

As for the order of deaconess, there is a scholarly work done that examines this issue in depth already in print. I doubt that the women who are calling for its return would stand for it in its historic form. It appears that its use was never something that gained any ground in the Latin Church. And in the East, the order was used to hold female infants at Baptism so that a priest would not have to touch female infants. A deaconess also had to keep order—something like an usher—in the women's sections of the church when it was considered a distraction for men to have women in the main body of the church with them during Liturgy. I've read descriptions of these grilled-off areas and they remind me of the grilled areas behind which cloistered orders attend Liturgy when they are in canonical enclosures.

Then there is the issue of the actual ordination ceremony. A deaconess was considered to be equal to the subdeacon order for men: a minor order in the Eastern churches. They were under the order of deacon and not equal to it. That meant no preaching and no other functions reserved for those in major orders. My reading in this area has shown that this order never really got established in the Latin Church. I may be mistaken but this may have been concurrent with the rise of Islam, which separates men and women. Was this the Church's reaction to Islamic criticism when there was active competition for men's minds and allegiance? Did this order drop out of the Church's when the Church lost many members to Islam and finally returned to its own true patrimony? I wonder.

BOB

Bob,

Where do you get this power to know the secret hopes of people you hold in such low regard?

Axios