www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Altar Girls????

Dear Alex:

Boy, am I glad that you are preceived to be just "skirting" the issues.

I thought your were gone chasing skirts...

AmdG

Dear Amado,

That's "DONE chasing skirts . . ."

But I still think I have a leg up on things . . .

Alex

Dear Alex:

I think only men over 50 like me are "DONE. . ."

You are 4 (or 3?) short of that milestone!

AmdG

Dear Amado,

Three, Big Guy, three . . .

Juice a guava (or kiwi) together with two passion-fruit and an orange (or grapefruit) and blend with a raw egg.

Two cups a day will make you feel 39 again!

Alex

Dear Alex:

Or, you may want to try our "balut," if you have the stomach for it.

Old folks back in Manila used to guarantee its efficacy!

Although you have to scour around Toronto for the "fresh" ones.

AmdG

Dear Amado,

My stomach is the least of my worries these days . . .

Alex

You're over 50? Funny, I pictured you in your early 40s.

ChristTeen287

So altar servers are wholely functional roles?

Axios

Dear Brethren,

Let us go back to the first 300 years of the New Testament Church when there were no icon screens!

The episkopos (priest) made the offering with his presbyters (elder males) around him at the altar. As his duties and responsibilities for travel increased, he ordained one presbyter as the proistamenos-presbyter (priest) to make the offering in his absence. Gradually things formalized.

Some sort of scandal or abuse must have happened that caused those gathered in ecumenical council to ban females from serving at the altar. Perhaps a deaconess was serving as the male deacons now do and something (scandal or abuse) came from this practice. For whatever the reason, they were banned.

Once Christianity became legal and preferred in the 300s, multitudes flocked the churches and perhaps even abused the chalice (passed around to each communicant). Thus, up went the icon screen and use of the spoon for communing the faithful.

So the idea of females serving at the functions of the altar are banned, not the idea of females serving. For this reason, conservatives (who? me?) will oppose females processing in the little or great entrances or taking over other roles traditionally performed by male servers, if these roles are directly linked with service at the altar.

There are good examples of females processing in the great entrance, from the early Church in Rome, for example. And so when this issue crossed our parish's bow, I consulted a learned episcopal-type friend who said;

(paraphrase) 'Technically, having girls in the procession is not a violation of the canon, by the letter of the canon. But, if we change something, we should always ask, "why?" I am a bishop and there are things that I would like to change, and I have the authority to change them, but I don't change them. Why? Because liturgy is not about what I like to do.'

I say that liturgy is the work of the people about the faith that has been handed down to us. Changes may arise because of a need to preserve and deepen that faith. So often, however, changes are about some other agenda which perhaps seeks to subvert that faith. For this reason, all must be done in good order and discipline and consulting the teaching of those who have passed this faith to us.

With love in Christ.

Check it out,this is how it goes in the books that i have read.St Basil after the angels and the Lord Jesus revealed to him to shorten the lituargy had a dove suspended above the alter to commemorate the revelation that he had. Not to mention that it was in the revelation to do this.Anyways one time during lituargy while he went to consacrate the body and blood the dove did not jump up and down on the wire. You see it would do this every time he would consecrate the body and blood.And this time it didnt so when he looked around he seen one of the elders or deacons that was admireing the beauty of a certain woman.And this is not good so he had the screen put up and the deacon removed.And after that the dove would jump up and down.Also I think that you are right on about the whole alter girls thing.

Dear Friends,

Yes, although there was no altar screen at first, there is evidence to suggest that a curtain was used following the end of the persecutions of Christians in imitation of that found in the Temple etc.

The curtain is still in our modern iconostases and Oriental Orthodox Churches will still ONLY have the curtain.

Banning women from the sanctuary goes back to the Old Testament and, certainly, it was considered that women posed a proximate danger to men serving at the altar.

St Basil not only counselled against looking at women, but also against looking at young boys . . .

Alex