www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Pope Francis wishing a happy ramadan to Muslims?

I agree, most evangelical type Protestants (as opposed to "main line" Protestants) have no interest in dialogue with us as we are "unsaved" and indistinguishable to them. Many seem to be Trinitarian in name only anyway.... (as in praying " In Jesus' name" rather than in the name ofthe Triune God.)

I dont understand. You agree with this yet you attack someone else for their appearance? What am I missing? Did you not say this?

(I have to note my inherent dislike of the trend among some Orthodox to behave and dress as if they were living in a Russian village on the steppes during the 19th century. I struggle with being judgmental in this regard but to me, I just don't get it. A person can dress modestly without calling attention to oneself.I find the matter troubling.)

Maybe I'm being too strict in my thinking because as far as I'm concerned, most have the same muddled theology and false constructs. I got into it with a couple clergy persons regarding the limited God they created, one which has no jurisdiction over the dead or anything outside their scope of understanding. Another lay person, a relative, told me one MUST pray ONLY IN JESUS NAME - every other prayer is unBiblical, he said. I say no, you can pray to the Father or the Holy Spirit just as well. He replied, No that's not in the Bible. Then I replied, what about the Our Father? Christ prayed to the Father, not in Jesus name and he said we should all pray like this. Do you pray this prayer? Do you add "extra" (un) Biblical "Jesus name" prayers?

I am not saying anything shocking here, but let's face facts, the Catholic Church is in decline.

Why is it in decline? Because very few Catholics are interested in trying to bring others to the faith, and are more interested in simply maintaining the status quo (e.g., Catholics will fall to just over half the population of Brazil over the next 10 to 15 years, and fall to about 50 percent of the population of Latin America as a whole).

When I converted to Catholicism in 1987 it was not because I was approached by a Catholic. Nope, the Catholics I knew at the time were uninterested in sharing their faith in Christ.

How was I converted? I read the writings of the Church Fathers for eight years and finally decided I needed to become Catholic.

What happened when I approached a parish about converting? The priest told me to remain Episcopalian, because the Episcopal Church needed good people. He told me to be "the best Episcopalian you can be."

What did I do? I ignored him and I went to a different Catholic parish and thankfully the priest at that Church arranged for me to join the RCIA program.

Maybe if Catholics (especially Catholic leaders) were less concerned about being politically correct, and instead tried to actually convert people (in particular Muslims) to Christianity, the Church would be healthier.

You're in for a real shock if you were ever to review correspondence of the Byzantine period, both between the Great Church of Constantinople and the Muslim authorities, and between the God-Beloved Emperor and the Muslim authorities. They maintained a courteous and diplomatic relationship over the course of almost 800 years, during which time exchanges of good will for major feasts (to say nothing of important births, weddings and other social events) were not only a matter of course, but scrupulously detailed in books of etiquette and protocol (such as Constantine V's de Ceremonis). Maintaining harmonious relations is not a matter of compromising on doctrine, but rather a prudential approach that furthered the interests of Empire and Church alike.

You might also consider that more than a few of the Fathers, like John of Damascus, lived under Muslim rule and saw it in the interests of the Church not to antagonize the Muslims with undue hostility.

I agree that there was a protocol for the Emperor and his court, but what of the patriarch?

De Ceremoniis of Constantine the VII was a ceremonial protocol at the court of the Eastern Roman emperor in Constantinople. So civility in matters of state I can understand. To a point. I have seen where that has gone horribly wrong.

Also, I am sure you will find something in the 1400 years of the empire that points to the ecumenical actions of patriarchs, but come on. Isn't that cherry picking data?

I am interested in your statement of "both between the Great Church of Constantinople and the Muslim authorities," is it still the Byzantine period if Constantinople has already fallen? Or are you simply stating the correspondence between the church and the Muslims during the period?

Lastly, are you suggesting the Pope is acting like St. John? I ask only out of curiosity, not to start a fight. Is is really later than I think?

Me agree too.

Chadrook,

Then you know, as well, about the need for diplomacy and courtesy when dealing with other cultures and faiths.

And what happens when U.S. soldiers are disrespectful to other cultures and faiths.

To be courteous is not to agree with what a person believes in.

Alex

All I can say is that is a one way street. How many churches in Saudi Arabia? How many mosque in Rome, Moscow and Washington D.C.?

Another thing is what constitutes disrespect. Did my guys know that it was disrespectful to give candy to a preteen girl? No. They stoned her to death anyways.

Might I remind the participants that the way we treat others is not determined by how they treat us? We treat others as Christ would treat them. We treat others as if each was Christ Himself.

That is not the issue here.

Perhaps this represents an example of Christian-Muslim neighborliness that is less troubling on the theological grounds that are a concern for Todd and/or Chad?

http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/articles/2013/07/22/reportage-01

It is the whole reason from which Pope Francis sends greetings to Muslims.