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#39895 07/10/03 03:09 PM
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Dear Friends,

Following up on a suggestion from Diak, I wanted to open this thread for questions we might have regarding Reader's Services and related topics.

We are urged by our Church and timeless Tradition to participate in the Divine Praises and the Byzantine Church allows for unordained monastics and laity to read the services as much as they are able and in accordance with prescribed rules that basically eliminate the prayers specific to priests only.

My first question in this respect is in terms of the Octoechos for Matins.

If one does not have the time to do all the Canons, what can be used validly in their place via a shorter service?

Alex

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Alex, rather than replace them I would take the "Triodion" approach of taking three, for example you could pick perhaps the 1st Ode, kondakia/ikos and 7th Ode, and the ninth ode rather than replacing the entire Canon.

Hapgood gives the first irmos from each ode and the response rather than the entire Ode. I prefer my option because each Ode develops the theme from the Irmos and if you rotated those that you picked because of time constraints, and pick different odes each time, you would eventually pray all of them from the Okotoechos.

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Dear Diak,

Excellent!

Now, what is this thing called he "Katavasia?"

A portion is said at the end of each Ode of the Canon, correct?

And every Canon must have a Katavasia?

Which Katavasia does one use?

Also, when one is getting to the end of the Ode (of the Canon or else the final Canon if there is more than one) one used the Glory Be as the refrain before the second and last troparia of the Ode.

Does the Katavasia figure into this - that is, does the "Now and ever" come before the Katavasia?

Alex

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Alex,

Depending on how abbreviated one would like to make their privately-prayed Matins service, I see several options regarding the Canon:

As Diak said, pick three odes, with the kontakion and ikos (as well as the Magnificat, if appointed).

Pick two odes, with the kontakion, ikos (and Magnificat). If I recall correctly, this is done in the Uniontown Menaion for certain "lesser" feasts.

Take all the Irmi, with the appropriate refrain from the Canon between each Irmos.

Take one of the Scriptural Odes 1-8 (the basis for the hymnographical Canon) and the Ninth Scriptural Ode, the Magnificat, separated by the kontakion and the ikos. These odes are often found in Orthodox Psalters.

These are just the opinions of a lowly reader. smile

Dave

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Dear Reader David,

Thank you!

That is another question I wanted to ask.

Do we even use the nine Scriptural Odes, apart from the Magnificat?

I believe the Greeks do - and if we do, where do they come?

Let's say if one is doing a non-abbreviated Matins, where would the Odes appear?

Alex

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Dear Alex, Katavasia literally means "descent". On Mt. Athos and in some other monasteries, the choir literally descends from the stalls to unite in the center of the Church as these are sung. There are proper Katavasia and general ones. The Oktoechos from St. John of Kronstadt Press which I very much like and some other provide the general Katavasia for the eight tones.

If you don't have the Katavasia available, the first irmos can be read again at the conclusion of the ode after the Theotokion as the Katavasia. Actually some canons are structured like this, for example the Paschal Canon of St. John Damascene used at Paschal Matins repeats the first Irmos at the end of each ode as the Katavasia.

Generally speaking for daily Matins with no Gospel the Canon would be read after Psalm 50.

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Dear Diak,

Thank you!

So the katavasia would be always preceded with "now and always and unto the ages of ages?"

Are the nine scriptural Odes used in our tradition?

Could one replace the Canons with the recital of the Odes?

What about the bringing in of the Canon for the Saint of the day?

Should one do that daily?

Alex

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Regarding the Scriptural Odes, I am not exactly positive how they would be combined with the hymnographical canon(s) in a "full" service. It is certainly not done in parish practice. You may find Greek (perhaps Athonite) monasteries that use them, but I am not sure how. Greek parish practice does not generally do a full canon: they tend to just sing the appointed Katavasi one after another.

Perhaps other posters can answer your question.

Dave

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When speaking of "full" services, the following comes to mind:



It is (a translation of) the description of a complete all-night vigil done at the beginning of the 20th century in Kiev.

It does mention the Scriptural Odes being done.

Overall, it is a delightful and insightful read!

Dave

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Dear Dave,

Thank you!

Wow! Wow!

So there were Muscovites there (Great Russians) and Ukrainians (Original Russians) eh? smile

Some of my religion students held all-nighters in church, but these were more to do with psalms and private prayers where they would take turns praying all night until 6:00 am.

What a wondeful experience!

Alex

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That reminds me of August, 1998, in the first year of my diaconate program when Father Peter Galadza lead us in a liturgical "boot camp" in Stamford with the full All-Night Vigil for the feast of the Transfiguration, with all of the Kathismata, all of the sessional hymns, Canon, litya, etc. After spending most of the night in the chapel we were indeed "transfigured" in more ways than one... smile

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Glory to Jesus Christ!

RE: KATAVASIAI

The Typikon appoints the Irmoi which are sung as Katavasiai. The general structure of an ode without the singing of the Scriptural Canticle is as follows:

1. Irmos (in Slavic practice, sung to the proper Irmos tone, either the "general" irmos tone or the podoben melody assigned to the canon).
2. Refrain (such as "Glory to your holy Resurrection, O Lord! sung to its own melody)
3. Troparion (recited)
4. Refrain
5. Troparion (recited)
6. Refrain
7. Glory...to the Holy Spirit (refrain melody)
8. Troparion (recited)
9. Now and ever... (refrain melody)
10. Theotokion
11. Katavasia (sung to its assigned Irmos melody)

Obviously, the number of troparia in each ode is different. This is just a generic example. The ending, however is like this in all Odes EXCEPT Ode 8.

In Ode 8, the beginning is the same, but from 7. onward there are differences:

7. "Let us bless the Lord: Father Son and Holy Spirit!" (refrain melody)
8. Troparion
9. Now and ever and forever. Amen. (refrain mel)
10. Theotokion
11. "Let us praise, bless and worship the Lord;
praising and exalting Him above all forever.
(in prostopinije, anyway, this has a proper melody in each Tone)
12. THEN the Katavasia of Ode 8.

(Prof.) J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA

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Glory to Jesus Christ!

RE: SCRIPTURAL ODES

Byzantine psalters contain 151 psalms, and then all of the Scriptural Odes.

Each of the Odes is printed in full. The last verses of each Ode have indications "on 8," "on 7", etc., all the way down to "on 1." The Irmos and the troparia of the Canon are interpolated into the Ode.

It should be noted that this procedure is usually followed, one Ode per day, during the Great Fast.

(Prof.) J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA

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Quote
That is another question I wanted to ask.

Do we even use the nine Scriptural Odes, apart from the Magnificat?

I believe the Greeks do - and if we do, where do they come?

Let's say if one is doing a non-abbreviated Matins, where would the Odes appear?
The Scriptural Odes are not normally used outside of the Great Fast.

Sometimes the Benedictus is also taken at the Ninth Ode on weekdays, its verses (rather than the refrain) being intercalated with the troparia of the canon(s).

I don't suppose there is any compelling reason why the Scriptural Odes could not be taken at other times. I have seen systems that take two of the Odes daily - the ninth ode, and another one which rotates amongst the other odes in turn.

-- Ed

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Quote
Byzantine psalters contain 151 psalms, and then all of the Scriptural Odes.

Each of the Odes is printed in full. The last verses of each Ode have indications "on 8," "on 7", etc., all the way down to "on 1." The Irmos and the troparia of the Canon are interpolated into the Ode.

It should be noted that this procedure is usually followed, one Ode per day, during the Great Fast.
I don't often get a chance to pray daily Matins because of time and work constraints, but I believe this is done for three odes each day (hence the TRIodion). One ode varies by the day of the week, but this process is always followed for Odes 8 and 9.

Also, for the other odes of the canon, are not the Biblical Canticles also used in a greatly abbreviated form?

-- Ed

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