The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Wenura Ravindu, Leeno, San Nicolas, Skanderbeg, ClearwaterByz
5,844 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (akemner), 101 guests, and 36 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,166
Posts414,953
Members5,844
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
S
shawnbm Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
I personally know of some priests who have bi-ritual faculties in both Latin and Eastern rite churches. I feel I understand how that can be, but I love to hear how it came to pass. If anyone can shed light on that, then that would be most appreciated. My question, though, is this: do bi-ritual deacons exist along the same lines and, if so, how does that come to pass? Thank you and blessings to during this Lenten (or Great Lenten) Season.

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 87
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 87
shawnbm,

I have also heard of them. I can't shed much light on how it is. I do know that one is supposed to get permission from one's bishop to change rites, though I doubt that any laymen bother with that. Probably these priests convinced their bishops to permit it, or perhaps since the general relaxation of discipline after Vatican II a priest can just do it. But then again, all priests, to be licit, must be attached to a diocese or an eparchy. They probably have to get permission from both the RC bishop and the Bishop or Metropolitan of the relevant Eastern rite, and they probably have to live in a part of the world where both East and West share territory.

Bi-ritual deacons seem theoretically possible, but the office of Deacon is not the same in East and West. An Eastern Deacon has a larger role in the Liturgy--I don't think that an Eastern Deacon would want to be bi-ritual, and a Western Deacon would not be qualified.

Another consideration is that probably most bi-ritual clergy started out Roman, at least in the US. In Eastern Europe and former USSR states, I can imagine many different scenarios.

These are just guesses, I am no expert.

Last edited by Roman refugee; 03/17/14 02:34 PM. Reason: clarity
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 434
Likes: 4
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 434
Likes: 4
Quote
I don't think that an Eastern Deacon would want to be bi-ritual, and a Western Deacon would not be qualified.

As a deacon candidate in the current class attending St. Cyril and Methodius (we are in our last year as a class -- your prayers will be appreciated!)I would say that a Western deacon would be utterly LOST trying to be a deacon in the East.

And as for serving at a Novus Ordo Mass.......

After you've had the beauty, worship, and reverence of an Eastern Liturgy, it would be hard to get very excited about serving in a Roman Church. Certainly (God willing that I am ordained) I would be willing to do so for my Roman brothers and sisters if asked to and Bishop Kurt had no objections, but the two liturgies are just miles apart in substance.

Oh, I forgot. We do have bi-ritual deacon! Fr. Deacon Ed Kleinguetl, who serves out of Houston TX. He was our homiletics teacher last year and a darn good one! Perhaps you could contact him and ask him what all was involved. I'm pretty sure he was Roman first and then got his bi-ritual faculties to serve the Byzantine parish in Houston.

Last edited by Irish_Ruthenian; 03/17/14 02:40 PM.
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
S
shawnbm Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
Thank you to all, and particularly Irish Ruthenian--my prayers are certainly with you.

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 51
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 51
I, too, don't know how it came about (sorry frown ), but I have been to at least one parish where there was not only an Eastern Rite priest but also a Western Franciscan priest with bi-ritual faculties who would sometimes con-celebrate or celebrate the DL himself if the pastor was unable to.

My thinking is that bi-ritual faculties are granted because there are just not enough vocations in the Eastern Rite in this country, and so Western Rite priests are trained and granted the faculties. (I believe Fr. Mitch Pacwa of EWTN has bi-ritual faculties.)

So, it's not a matter of Eastern Rite priests having to celebrate N.O. Mass, but rather just the opposite.

The Eastern Rite is, I believe, shrinking in this country at least partially because there are not enough priestly vocations. This is immensely sad. Please, let's all pray for more vocations!!!!

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 434
Likes: 4
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 434
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by J Michael
I, too, don't know how it came about (sorry frown ), but I have been to at least one parish where there was not only an Eastern Rite priest but also a Western Franciscan priest with bi-ritual faculties who would sometimes con-celebrate or celebrate the DL himself if the pastor was unable to.

My thinking is that bi-ritual faculties are granted because there are just not enough vocations in the Eastern Rite in this country, and so Western Rite priests are trained and granted the faculties. (I believe Fr. Mitch Pacwa of EWTN has bi-ritual faculties.)

So, it's not a matter of Eastern Rite priests having to celebrate N.O. Mass, but rather just the opposite.

The Eastern Rite is, I believe, shrinking in this country at least partially because there are not enough priestly vocations. This is immensely sad. Please, let's all pray for more vocations!!!!

The Eastern Rite in this country is not just shrinking....it is disappearing. I was at a conference in Gettysburg PA in 2003 where I first met Fr. Thomas Loya. We were in a discussion about the Byzantine Catholic Church (I was all excited as a convert and having found the Church) and Fr. Loya said to me:

"If the Byzantine Catholic Church in America doesn't learn how to evangelize, it will be gone in 50 years."

I was a bit stunned and asked him to clarify.

"Go to any Byzantine Catholic Church on a Sunday and look around. What do you see? Mostly old babbas, no men, and very few young people. We have become an ethnic ghetto and we are not reaching out to people."

He is spot-on right, although I have seen a few parishes with young couples and children, the smaller parishes in smaller towns seem to match his description.

The funny thing is that I am polar opposite of anything even close to being an eastern European (unless there is a hidden side to my family tree) and yet, when I first saw a full Eastern Liturgy, I KNEW this was what I had been looking for in my search through various forms of Christianity.

When I was in my third year with St. Ann's, I came up with a plan to go out and go door-to-door, evangelizing like I used to do with the Fundamentalist Bible thumper assemblies I had belonged to. +Fr. Mike, of happy memory, was very interested in this, but about the time he was ready to pull the trigger on it, the cancer that eventually killed him flared up and the project was set aside.

It is sad to me. We have such beauty, and yet we somehow keep it to ourselves. Why?

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,882
Likes: 24
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,882
Likes: 24
shawnbm:

Christ is in our midst!!

There is a priest of my acquaintance who received permission to be bi-ritual a few years back. He told me that this permission came from Rome before he could ask an Eastern bishop for faculties. He was in the process of learning the Byzantine Divine Liturgy at the time. I haven't heard if he has yet served one.

There have been a number of religious order priests who have become bi-ritual and they have been trained so as to support the Eastern Catholic Churches.

I believe that Fr. Pacwa is bi-ritual in the Maronite Catholic Church. He was a concelebrant with a Maronite bishop on an EWTN broadcast a few years back.

Bob

Last edited by theophan; 03/17/14 06:37 PM. Reason: spelling
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,125
E
Za myr z'wysot ...
Member
Offline
Za myr z'wysot ...
Member
E
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,125
Originally Posted by J Michael
My thinking is that bi-ritual faculties are granted because there are just not enough vocations in the Eastern Rite in this country, and so Western Rite priests are trained and granted the faculties. (I believe Fr. Mitch Pacwa of EWTN has bi-ritual faculties.)
JM,

You are right about Fr. Mitch, he has bi-ritual faculties with the Maronite Church.

You are also mostly right about the reason why bi-ritual faculties are granted, but there are exceptions: any EC priest who becomes a military chaplain, at least in the US, is automatically given RC faculties (for obvious reasons).


Originally Posted by J Michael
The Eastern Rite is, I believe, shrinking in this country at least partially because there are not enough priestly vocations. This is immensely sad. Please, let's all pray for more vocations!!!!
Amen.

Quote
"But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion for them, because they were harassed and scattered, like sheep without a shepherd. Then he said to his disciples, "The harvest indeed is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Pray therefore that the Lord of the harvest will send out laborers into his harvest." (Mt. 9:36-38)


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 434
Likes: 4
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 434
Likes: 4
Would that be Fr. Leonard Martin, S.J. by any chance? He was our parish priest for about a year. He was learning the Eastern Liturgy and doing a fine job of it.

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,882
Likes: 24
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,882
Likes: 24
IR:

No. He is a priest of the Altoona-Johnstown diocese.

Bob

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,079
Likes: 11
Global Moderator
Member
Offline
Global Moderator
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,079
Likes: 11
Originally Posted by Roman refugee
one is supposed to get permission from one's bishop to change rites, though I doubt that any laymen bother with that.

Although shawn's question dealt with bi-ritual clergy, Rr's opening remark in response speaks of lay persons, so let's deal briefly with that first.

Lay persons are not, cannot be bi-ritual (a term one occasionally, and erroneously, hears applied to them). A lay person belongs to/is ascribed to a single Church [sui iuris], regardless the Church in which he chooses to worship.

A lay person does not 'change rites' (that terminology is antiquated and has not been proper for several decades now - not since the Eastern and Oriental Churches were formally recognized as distinct Churches sui iuris (Churches of their own law).

A lay person transfers from one Church sui iuris to another (e.g., the Latin Church to the Byzantine Ruthenian Church or, more rarely, vice-versa). The act of doing so is termed a Transfer of Canonical Enrollment and is accomplished by petitioning one's current bishop and the bishop of the Church to which one seeks to transfer.

It is not necessary to formally seek such a transfer merely to worship in and receive certain Mysteries within a different Church sui iuris than the one to which you belong - because a Catholic may worship in and receive certain of the Mysteries in any Catholic Church. However, if one wants to have their children receive the Mysteries of Initiation (Baptism, Chrismation, and the Eucharist) in a Church other than their own, or if one intends to pursue the Mystery of Holy Orders in a Church other than their own, a formal transfer should be (in the former instance) or is (in the latter instance) required. Additionally, many persons seek to formally transfer because they believe that they can best live their spiritual life in a different Church than the one to which they are ascribed.

There are also specific provisions related to entering into Marriage with a Catholic of another Church and with respect to the children of one who formally transfers. I'm neither going to address those here nor delve into any more detail on the subject of Transfers of Canonical Enrollment for laypersons here, as the topic is extensively dealt with and described in multiple threads in this forum. (If anyone needs information on those, any of several of our members will be pleased to provide links to relevant threads.)

However, I want to dispel any notion that laypersons 'do not bother' with the process; many have and do - including a not insignificant number of our forum members.

Quote
Probably these priests convinced their bishops to permit it, or perhaps since the general relaxation of discipline after Vatican II a priest can just do it.

No and no. A priest does not convince his bishop to permit him to obtain bi-ritual faculties (the proper terminology for what the priest is granted). Nor can a priest 'just do it'!

Quote
But then again, all priests, to be licit, must be attached to a diocese or an eparchy. They probably have to get permission from both the RC bishop and the Bishop or Metropolitan of the relevant Eastern rite, and they probably have to live in a part of the world where both East and West share territory.

Yes. For a priest to be granted bi-ritual faculties there must be agreement on the part of his bishop or his religious superior (in the case of priests who are of religious orders, rather than diocesan/secular priests) and of the bishop of the canonical jurisdiction for which they seek faculties. (Rr's comment presupposes that all such grants of faculty are made to priests of the Latin Church to serve bi-ritually in an Eastern Church. Such is not the case, there are priests of the Eastern Churches who are granted faculties to serve in the Latin Church or to serve in a different Eastern Church.)

The request to grant bi-ritual faculties to a priest (in either direction) is made by one bishop to another.

A Latin bishop whose canonical jurisdiction includes some meaningful number of Eastern Church faithful is instructed by Canon Law to provide for their pastoral care. Accordingly, he may reach out to his brother bishop of that particular Church and ask that a mission be opened within the geographic area of his jurisdiction - and that a priest be assigned to it.

If the Eastern bishop agrees but does not have a presbyter to staff it, the Latin bishop might seek out a priest of his diocese with an interest in receiving bi-ritual faculties and offer his services. Subject to the Eastern bishop considering the priest acceptable, he will arrange for the Latin priest's instruction and grant him faculties.

In the case of an Eastern priest who is serving a small mission or parish in an area where there is a priest shortage, a Latin bishop might reach out to that Eastern priest's bishop and ask if he would consider allowing him to grant the priest bi-ritual faculties in the Latin Church, so that he might assist at a nearby Latin parish or in some chaplaincy role. In most such cases, the Eastern bishop will agree to this. The added income in such instances will often help to offset the salary and other financial needs of the Eastern priest and his mission or parish.

In such instances, the bi-ritual priest remains incardinated to the diocese or eparchy of his origin or to his religious order and - particularly in the case of diocesan or religious order Latin priests with bi-ritual faculties - the time may come, often does, when the priest is needed elsewhere and may have to be pulled back by his bishop, leaving a gap to be filled or a mission to be closed/parish to be suppressed.

Deacon Richard, in his post above, pointed out that Eastern Catholic clergy serving as armed forces chaplains are required to obtain bi-ritual faculties in the Latin Church. The same is true of those serving as chaplains to Veterans Administration facilities.

As regards religious orders, there are a number of Latin religious orders which have a history of involvement with the Eastern Churches, including some which have specific provinces or other organizational entities within their structure which are solely dedicated to to the Eastern Churches.

Priests of the Society of Jesus who are specifically ordained for the service of an Eastern Catholic Church [vs Jesuits who were initially ordained as Latins and subsequently accepted to the Society's ' Eastern Province'] are ordained in the Rite of the particular Church which they are to serve, but are required to subsequently be accorded bi-ritual faculties in the Latin Church, although they may never serve it.

The same may also be true in the case of at least some other principally Western religious orders that have defined provinces or sections that serve in Eastern Churches (Benedictines, Franciscans, Marianists, Assumptionists, Salesians, Capuchins, and Redemptorists come to mind).

As regards the non-Byzantine Churches:

The vast majority, if not all, priests of the Ethiopian Catholic Church are accorded bi-ritual faculties in the Latin Church (and the obverse is true of Latin Ethiopian priests). It goes hand-in-hand with the unusual set-up of canonical jurisdictions in Ethiopia - where those of the Ethiopian and Latin Churches are exclusive, rather than overlapping and each must, of necessity, afford pastoral care to the faithful of the other Church who reside outside the geographic bounds of their own jurisdictions.

As regards priests of the Syro-Malabar Church, the majority also hold bi-ritual faculties in the Latin Church. The very significant number of priestly vocations in that Church have made it a ready source for priests to be 'loaned' to Latin jurisdictions, not only in India, but elsewhere.

I don't know that the numbers are substantial, but I have known several Maronite priests with bi-ritual Latin faculties.

As far as I know, it's not particularly common among the Coptic, Syriac, Armenian, Chaldean, or Syro-Malankara presbyterates to have Latin faculties.

However, there are other combinations to be found. One can find priests of the three Antiochian Patriarchates (Maronite, Melkite, and Syriac) who have faculties in one or both of their Sister Churches.

A few years ago, Deacon Randy mentioned a priest of his acquaintance with faculties in 4 Churches besides the Byzantine Church to which he was ordained.

Father Archimandrite James King, of blessed memory, a Melkite priest, had both Armenian and Latin faculties and has also, at various times, assisted in/served parishes of three other Byzantine Rite Churches - Ukrainian, Russian, and Ruthenian - besides his own.

There are some Malankara and Malabarese priests with faculties in each other's Churches. In particular, the Syro-Malabarese maintain a vicariate comprising 15 parishes in one of their eparchies for Syro-Malankara Knanaites, in which the liturgical forms are those of the Malankarese's ancestral (Antiochene) Rite (despite that the Malabarese Church is of the Chaldean Rite) employing a Knanaite Usage (most Knanaites are Malabarese).

For a priest of any Church to effect a Transfer of Canonical Enrollment requires the permission of the Oriental Congregation - which will typically be granted if there is no objection on the part of the losing hierarch (or religious superior if it's a religious order priest) and the gaining hierarch. Most commonly, this occurs with a priest who has been serving for a protracted period in the Church for which he was accorded bi-ritual faculties

Quote
Bi-ritual deacons seem theoretically possible, but the office of Deacon is not the same in East and West. An Eastern Deacon has a larger role in the Liturgy--I don't think that an Eastern Deacon would want to be bi-ritual, and a Western Deacon would not be qualified.

Again, as I have indicated before, disparagement of the Latin Church or its Liturgy or clergy, by insinuation or otherwise - such as dismissive commentary regarding the Latin diaconate - is unacceptable in this forum!

Deacons do not technically receive bi-ritual faculties. With the permission of his own bishop, a deacon may be given a blessing by a bishop of another Church to serve in the latter's jurisdiction.

Examples of several sorts come immediately to mind: our own Deacon Ed Faulk, was ordained a Latin deacon, but serves a Melkite parish; Deacon Stan, of blessed memory, (husband of our own Pani Rose), was ordained to the Byzantine Ruthenian Church, but served a Melkite parish throughout his diaconal career; Deacon Lawrence Cross of Australia was ordained a Melkite deacon, but served a Russian parish prior to his presbyteral ordination (and now does so as a priest); Deacon Gregory Haddad, a Melkite, serves the Ruthenian mission in New Orleans; and, at least one Melkite deacon whose name escapes me presently serves a Latin parish, due to there being no Byzantine parishes in the area to which he had to relocate for employment reasons.

Quote
These are just guesses, I am no expert.

Guessing is not the ideal - virtually everything posted above can be found by judicious use of the search function.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 382
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 382
I, myself, am a priest with 'bi-ritual' faculties.

Although a priest of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Eparchy of the Holy Family of London, I work by day as a chaplain in a Roman Catholic College. As a result, having the faculty to celebrate Mass for staff and students there became a virtual necessity. My bishop was not exactly enamoured with the idea, as he - quite rightly - did not (and does not) want to see me get too absorbed into the Roman Catholic diocese in which I reside, lest I fail to live and embody the traditions of the Eastern Church to which I properly belong. This potential conflict was solved, however, by the wording of the decree that puts limits on the extent to which I can do things 'as a Latin'.

I have to say that, psychologically, it can be challenging at times. I know the Latin tradition fairly well, but not quite well enough to do a lot of what I get asked to do - which is good; but I find myself equivocating alot, due to the fact that I feel like I'm lying when I say 'Sorry, but I can't do that' when someone asks me to undertake a certain ministry in Latin garb.

Thankfully, the Latin diocese in which I reside has been brilliant, and accepts me for what I am: a Ukrainian Greek Catholic priest who can help the Latins out from time to time. Beyond that, I know the Roman Catholic archbishop appreciates having a fuller picture of the Church within the geographical boundaries of his own territory, and is both familiar and sympathetic with Greek tradition.

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 382
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 382
I should add that, to the best of my knowledge, deacons do not need a 'faculty', but rather just their bishop's permission to serve in the other rite. Interestingly, though, if an Eastern deacon assists at a Latin liturgy, he does so vested as an Eastern deacon. If, however, a Latin deacon serves at an Eastern liturgy, he may do so vested as an Eastern deacon.

At least that is how such arrangements have played out in the dioceses I have experience of here in the UK.

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
S
shawnbm Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
thank you all so much for your replies on this most fascinating topic. Blessings

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 15
R
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
R
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 15
Neil, Don't forget Archdeacon George Yany of St. Basils in Lincoln RI. Deacon George was made bi-ritual by Bishop Gelleneau to set up the Latin deaconate program for the Diocess of Providence

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Alice, Father Deacon Ed, theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2022 (Forum 1998-2022). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5