www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology I'm thinking on becoming Byzantine, but.....

Greetings to all. I have some questions I need to have answered.

Here is the story. Several months ago I moved to where I am now. I discovered that there was a Byzantine Catholic church not to far from me. Being a Roman Catholic and having wanted to experience a Byzantine Liturgy for a long time, I went one Sunday.

Let me just say that I loved it! I had never experienceed such a thing. I fell in love after one visit. I continued there and still do every other Sunday or so. Given the liberal trends in my church, I see a possible move sometime in the future. However, I do have some questions and concerns:

1)I'm a little concerned that certain devotions aren't as common in the Eastern as opposed to the Western Church. A couple examples being the Rosary and devotion to the Sacred Heart. These two devotions were given to us directly from Jesus and Mary. I believe that any prayer or devotion given to us "directly from the top" should be embraced by all. Remember that Jesus warned us about tradition that compromised Truth. I personally have adopted the Jesus Prayer and my prayer rope as my own. I love the prayer and I recite it as often as I can. It dosen't matter to me that its not that common in my Church. I'm also reading "The Way of a Pilgrim"...great book.

2)It seems that certain Eastern Catholics are very ready to jump to the Orthodox Church without a second thought. I certainly don't want to offend any Orthodox here, but as a Catholic I consider the Orthodox Church schismatic.

Those are my two main concerns, now for my questions:

1)I have a 10 month old son. If I became Byzantine, how would my son go about receiving his first communion since there is no minimum age in the Byzantine Church?

2)Does anybody know a good book or website where I can find more on Byzantine tradition and customs? I'm not talking theology. I mean things such as Pascha customs, Christmas, Feast Days etc.

3)Who or what is the Patriarch of Constantinople? What does he do?

I'll have more I'm sure. This will do for now, though.

I would just like to add that I'm glad to be here. I'm here to learn, so if I offend, please forgive my ignorance.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Fighting Irish:

I was recently in the same situation as you. I found that the eastern church was more fulfilling to me spiritually, has great traditions, etc.

For your first point about western devotions, remember that Jesus and Mary are Roman Catholics....just kidding. These devotions can certainly be private devotions for Byzantine Catholics...however, they are not part of the liturgical traditions of the eastern churches. God still loves eastern catholics!

Number Two: Yes, many eastern catholics become Orthodox. Pray for unity!

As for your son, if you and your family are comfortable in the eastern church and discuss it with your pastor, you should have him receive the three initial mysteries. Make sure you are ready. The pastor will arrange all of this with you.

For books, pick of "The Art of Prayer" anthology. Great intro and very illuminating! I am sure others on this forum will have better things to say...I am still learning also!

Peace!
Greg

Dear fightingIrish,

Glory to Him forever!

I'm a Syrian Christian, and have learned much from this forum about the Byzantine tradition, and have enjoyed learning and the fellowship that goes on here. Glad you joined us. I'll try to answer some of your questions, and I'm sure what I miss in my ignorance someone else will add or correct.

"Remember that Jesus warned us about tradition that compromised Truth." But what if it's not a tradition that compromises Truth, but places emphasis on a different aspect of that Truth? The reason such devotions as the Sacred Heart and the Rosary aren't emphasised as much in the East as they are in the West is because we have different traditions. The devotions you mention are a part of the Latin tradition of the West, and are great. And if they came "from the top" as you say (and as I have no reason to doubt), they're worthy of respect, and should be used. But they aren't a part of the Eastern tradition. As some have mentioned on other threads, the Rosary has an Eastern connection in that it has been used by monastics and others as a private devotion. In many places in the West, however, it's become more of a paraliturgical service, which is good in the West, but isn't part of Eastern tradition. The difference between West and East is more than just in the externals. We have a different way of expressing theology than the West, and this in turn has an effect on our perspective. Both, I think, are complementary. But we prefer to stick to our traditions and emphasise them more than other traditions. That's not to say they are prohibited. I'm a Syrian Christian from India, yet I pray the Rosary and make the Stations of the Cross during Lent because I find them useful for my spiritual life. But I don't have a devotion to the Sacred Heart. In a similar way, I know many Latins who use icons exclusively in their prayer rather than statues, and who use the Jesus prayer, but don't have a devotion to the Brown Scapular, yet love Benediction. The possibilities are endless for the person, but to keep to a liturgical tradition, you generally have to emphasise one's own tradition. I don't see many Latin parishes promoting Eastern customs such as the Jesus prayer, but many which promote the Rosary and the Mercy chaplet. There's nothing wrong with them promoting a part of their Latin spiritual and devotional heritage. We just do that for our own Eastern heritage.

As far as the Orthodox being schismatics, perhaps they are, if you look at it from that perspective. The way I look at it personally is that both sides, East and West, broke away from the unity which we shared in Christ. Perhaps one side had more right than the other, perhaps not, but we both still broke away from each other.

I'm sorry I can't answer your first two questions, but the Patriarch of Constantinople is the leader of the Greek Orthodox Church, and first among equals of all Orthodox bishops. That's all I'm gonna say about that; others can go into what he does, what authority he has, etc.

Once again, welcome.

Glory to Him forever!

Dear fighting Irish,

Welcome to the Byzantine forum. It is a pleasure to have you with us. I will be glad to answer your questions to the best of my ability

But first, a little history...

I too was a Roman Catholic who discovered the magnificience of the Byzantine Catholic Church. My parents were Protestants, but I attended a Roman Catholic school and was raised nominally Roman Catholic. My next door neighbors were Byzantine, and they took me to their a parish a few times. I found myself falling in love with the Byzantine tradition, and eventually became a full-fledged Byzantine Catholic.

As a Roman Catholic coming into the Byzantine Church, I had some of the very same concerns that you do now. Almost identical, infact. I have since had the opportunity to study a great deal more theology, at Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH, and these concerns have since vanished.

Now for your questions:

1. Devotion to the Rosary and Sacred Heart.
You are most correct that in many apparitions both Jesus and Mary admonished Catholics to have these devotions. Nonetheless, we must recall that these apparitions all occured in the context of the Western (Roman Catholic) Church. In the Eastern Church, we have similar devotions, primarily the devotion to Mary through the Akathist and devotion to Jesus through the "Prayer of the Heart," aka Jesus Prayer. These two devotions also have many miracles associated with them, and are best suited to the Byzantine world view. Now, Western devotions such as the Rosary and the Sacred Heart are wonderful things, however, the problem is that these Western devotions tend to completely replace our Eastern devotions. As the Rosary and the Sacred Heart devotion spread, the Jesus Prayer and the Akathist practically disappeared in our parishes. Pope John Paul II, the living saint that he is, has authoritatively commanded us to restore these Eastern devotions, and to eventually phase out the Western devotions in our Byzantine Church's public life. Just a few years ago, the Pope publicly proclaimed that the Akathist is of EQUAL spiritual value to the Rosary. Of course, there is nothing to stop me as an individual Byzantine Catholic from praying the Rosary and having a devotion to the Sacred Heart. The Pope has only urged us to gradually phase out the public aspects of these devotions, so that our authentic Byzantine devotions will once again flourish.

2. Eastern Catholics jumping ship to the Orthodox Church.
Here at the Byzantine forum, we certainly have a few former Byzantine Catholics who left to become Orthodox. Most of these individuals were Roman Catholics who became Byzantine, and then used us as a stepping stone to Eastern Orthodoxy. This is something that I absolutely do not appreciate. Personally, I find this to be demonstrative of little respect for the Byzantine community that so graciously welcomed them. Nonetheless, I can't judge them or their reasons. Some of these folks I still hold in high respect (like Serge). In most cases, these individuals joined Byzantine parishes, and fell deeply in love with the Byzantine tradition. However, as they read and studied, they came to realize that much of the Byzantine tradition is missing, and has since been replaced with Latin customs. The Byzantine Catholic approach to the Gospel has been severely diluted by all of the authentic Byzantine traditions that were replaced with Latin ones. These individuals, rather than staying and working for a gradual change in their parishes, opt to jump ship and join an Orthodox parish, where they can experience the fullness of the Eastern tradition. The tragic irony is that if all of these persons remained in their parishes and worked for a change, the Byzantine Church would probably be far more Eastern today!!!

But on a positive note, the Byzantine Catholic Church is restoring its authentic traditions at a surprisingly fast rate. With the encouragement of Pope John Paul II, we are restoring an authentically Eastern approach to theology, liturgy, spirituality and ecclesiology. And as these changes occur, traffic starts to move in OUR direction from the Orthodox Church. As a matter of fact, my pastor, who is a young and dynamic priest, was a Russian Orthodox priest (OCA) who became Byzantine Catholic only a few years ago. Just this past Sunday he concelebrated the Divine Liturgy in our parish with a visiting Byzantine priest who is starting a new parish misson in Wisconsin. This visiting priest was an Antiochian Orthodox pastor who became Byzantine Catholic only two years ago, and is married with a child. And only two years ago two other prominent Eastern Orthodox priests became Byzantine Catholic, and now have mission parishes. As we continue to restore our Eastern Christian identity, we will see far less Byzantine Catholics leave to become Orthodox.

3. Your son.
If you become officially Byzantine Catholic, I would recommend getting a transfer for your family. Then your son would be Chrismated (confirmation) and receive his first communion. We chrismate infants before giving them first communion.

4. Not to blow my own horn, but I would suggest visiting my site, From East to West. It presents introductory material on Byzantine Catholicism, and is very practical: http://byzantine.20m.com

God bless, and it is a pleasure to have you here,
Anthony
dragani@catholic.org

FightingIrish, Christ is in our midst!

That's wonderful that your thinking of changing Churches. I am currently in the paper work process to change from the Roman rite to the Byzantine. You've come to the right place to get advice and a wealth of knowledge; this forum has some very knowledgeable people (not me though, I can't compete).

The plague of modernism in the Roman Church breaks a lot of hearts. The liturgical life of the Roman Church has suffered tremendously, and I understand exactly how you feel. I would advice you not to use the Byzantine Church as a mere refuge from liberalism. If you have traditionalist tendencies, it may seem this is the place for you, but it really isn�t. Absence of modernism does not equal traditionalist. I�m not accusing you of anything though, since I was in your position not long ago, but I just want to warn to you to look out for some things that I did not realize in my journey.

1) Breathing with �both lungs� on an individual level leads inevitably to spiritual schizophrenia. What our Holy Father means is that the entire Church should be an organic collective of all the legitimate traditions of the particular Churches. Going to one Church on one Sunday, and the other the next is NOT good.

2) Byzantine Christianity has it�s own fully developed spiritual traditions and devotions. You will not find direct parallels between East and West in devotional life. We usually don�t pray the Rosary, we recognize it as good, but because we have our own devotions to the Theotokos most Byzantines do not use it at all. There is an adapted Rosary for Byzantine use that incorporates traditional eastern spirituality. We don�t have a devotion to the Sacred Heart because we already emphasis Christ�s love for mankind. We don�t have Stations of the Cross or other �Catholic� devotions because we do not need them to compliment our spiritual tradition since it is already complete. In other words, do not think that we lack anything by not using the devotions that you may be attached to. You can keep all those things if you want, but it would be a personal devotion only.

3) Being a Byzantine Catholic is a spiritual identity, not merely, which Code of Canon law your �bound� to. Byzantine Catholics are (meant to be) Orthodox Christians in communion with the Pope of Rome. Orthodoxy possesses the fullness of the Faith and all her spiritual traditions are fully legitimate and equal to the Roman. In becoming a Byzantine Catholic, you will have an Orthodox mind and heart. Your theological understandings will change and become incorporated into your own spiritual life (mystical theology). The first thing anyone on this forum will tell you is to avoid �Latinizations� like the plague. It is really as bad as modernism is in your Church.

4) Orthodox are NOT schismatics. WE Catholics are just as schismatical as they are, if not more so. There have never been any anathemas and the ancient excommunications have been lifted. There remains a schism in essence because of theological discord. There cannot be communion unless there is unity in faith in truth, no compromises. As you read up and explore this forum, you will learn that the issues dividing us are very frustrating, complicated, and downright annoying. So concentrate on prayer not apologetics.
Some advice:
If you�re serious about the possibility of becoming Byzantine, stop going to the Roman parish. Embrace the Byzantine parish, get involved, and begin your eastern transformation. Talk to your spiritual father about a prayer rule or other devotions to begin to learn and integrate Byzantine spirituality in your own life. Find an eastern wall in your home, and make an icon wall. Get a hand censer and candles. Keep a vigil oil candle burning so you can turn your mind to God when you have to trim the wick (I don�t do this because of the fire hazard). Most of all, pray the Jesus Prayer a lot. �Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.� Inhale for the first phrase and exhale on the last (have mercy�). This is the contemplative practice akin to the prayer of recollection in the West. The whole point of Orthodoxy is the purification, illumination, and glorification of your soul. Start reading, and get started. (Kudos on reading The Way of a Pilgrim BTW).

There will come a time shortly when you will be shocked and become defensive about the differences of Byzantine Catholics and Roman Catholics. You might even consider us heretics because we reject (but affirm the essence) of papal infallibility, the Immaculate Conception, Original Sin, the Filioque, and other Roman doctrines. We confess only the first seven Ecumenical Councils to be ecumenical or universal. We have our own theological tradition and we don�t need Roman definitions.

A word on feeling �conservative� in the Byzantine Church. There is a tendency of Roman Catholic conservatives to follow canon law and rubrics to the letter. Most of us will agree that the eastern Code of Canon Law is a foreign document and in points unjust. Canon Law is not meant to be like English Common Law (followed to the letter) but more like Roman Law (follow the spirit of the law). It is okay to be more traditionally Orthodox at the expense of �violating� the rubrics or whatever. Don�t be scrupulous.

Good luck in your journey. Pray hard, and God bless.

Sinner among the first,
Matthew

Dear Anthony,

When did the Pope say that the Akathist was of equal spiritual value to the Rosary? I'd be interested in knowing when he said that, and what implications that has, such as whether then the Akathist is interchangeable with the Rosary in some Western religious orders where the Rosary is mandatory, or if Latins praying the Akathist get the Rosary indulgence, etc.

Wow. Thank you for your replies. I shall think about and pray about what you have offered. I have the utmost respect for the Eastern Tradition. I will admit, though, that this is all a little intimidating. It feels like I have to learn everything all over again

BTW...I bought my first icon a couple days ago. It pictures the Theotokos and Baby Jesus. It may be of interest to some of you to know that icons are gaining popularity in Roman churches. Its not uncommon to see them anymore. I personally love them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

C�ad m�le failte!

(I�m enjoying the new mainstream American interest in real Irish culture.)

Thanks for a fine first post. I invite you to visit <A HREF="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</A>, my site, for more about the Byzantine tradition the Orthodox and many Catholics share.

Given the liberal trends in my church, I see a possible move sometime in the future.

Good idea.

I'm a little concerned that certain devotions aren't as common in the Eastern as opposed to the Western Church. A couple examples being the Rosary and devotion to the Sacred Heart. These two devotions were given to us directly from Jesus and Mary. I believe that any prayer or devotion given to us "directly from the top" should be embraced by all. Remember that Jesus warned us about tradition that compromised Truth.

You�re right, Western devotions are really out of place in Byzantine churches because the tradition these Churches belong to is a complete package with its own forms of piety, like the Jesus Prayer and prayer rope used privately, and molebens, canons and akathist services. Don�t let their absence from Byzantine public life bother you. Remember that while apparitions and private revelations brought Catholics the Rosary and the Sacred Heart devotion, such revelations and practices are not Catholic dogma and are not required of all Catholics, even though Jesus and Mary appeared privately in person to give them. (One can be a sound, small-o orthodox Catholic in good standing and not personally believe Lourdes or F�tima actually happened!) All the Church says is the apparitions� messages are worthy of belief and so one can believe in the apparitions if one chooses. In short, apparitions are not capital-T Tradition, like the appearances and miracles in scripture are. Plus, you can always pray the Rosary and to Jesus as the Sacred Heart privately, even if you do become Byzantine.

I'm also reading "The Way of a Pilgrim"...great book.

Changed my life and made me realize the Orthodox tradition (which Byzantine Catholics share) is a living reality today and not just for people blessed to be born into it.

It seems that certain Eastern Catholics are very ready to jump to the Orthodox Church without a second thought.

That happens for several reasons. First, they accept the ecclesiology that says the Catholic or Universal Church is not co-terminous/synonymous with the Roman Catholic Church but rather is a family of apostolic Churches of which the Roman is one. The communion � sobornost� in Russian � of the Churches equals Catholicity. So, since the Orthodox are seen as true apostolic Churches, albeit out of communion with the Pope (in his role as vicar of Christ and not just head of the Roman Church), some BCs, fed up with being thwarted trying to live the full Byzantine tradition in their own churches (like the Pope apparently wants them to) by their own bishops, et al., do make the move. Also, read my <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/pa3/OldWorldBasic/Q&A.htm">Q&A page</a> to read up on the history of the creation of the Byzantine Catholic groups to understand better some BCs� desire to �return to the mother ship�.

I certainly don't want to offend any Orthodox here, but as a Catholic I consider the Orthodox Church schismatic

I�m not offended at all. As a loyal Catholic you believe communion with the Pope as vicar of Christ is necessary to be fully in the Church. But understand that born or ex-Protestant Orthodox are not called schismatics. They even can go to Catholic Confession and Communion without converting, Catholicism says. (The Orthodox don't allow it, though.)

I have a 10 month old son. If I became Byzantine, how would my son go about receiving his first communion since there is no minimum age in the Byzantine Church?

Ask the priest at your new Byzantine church. Also, I second the advice of getting a canonical transfer for your family if you do decide to join.

2)Does anybody know a good book or website where I can find more on Byzantine tradition and customs? I'm not talking theology. I mean things such as Pascha customs, Christmas, Feast Days etc.

Well, you�ve found one of them already! Sorry I don�t know of any comprehensive books on the subject. Another website I can recommend is that of St Michael's Ukrainian Catholic Church in Baltimore, at http://www.crosslink.net/~hrycak/Welcome-s.html

3)Who or what is the Patriarch of Constantinople? What does he do?

The patriarch of Constantinople is the head of what is left of the imperial Church of the eastern Roman Empire (what historians now call Byzantine), which fell to the Turks in 1453. He has a few bishops under him, like most of the Greeks outside of Greece and some others. (The Church in Greece is independent.) He lives in Istanbul, Turkey, formerly Constantinople, and because of Turkish law, he must be a Turkish citizen, though he is an ethnic Greek.

He is not the �spiritual head� or �Pope� of the world's Orthodox, as is sometimes wrongly reported. One of his titles is ecumenical patriarch because in imperial times, anything related to the imperial government had the title ecumenical, because it related to the whole (oikomene) of the empire.

Hope any of this helps.

Serge

P.S. Thanks, Anthony. I feel bad about your Churches being �used� that way, too, and hope somehow my presence here can make amends. You deserve better. (And you�re right, it�s almost always converts like me causing this pain, almost never ethnics born into BC churches.) But also understand where sincere Orthodox are coming from, in that the Byzantine Catholics to begin with were cut off unnaturally from their mother Churches, which are Orthodox. This is part of the incentive for sincere Orthodox-oriented, relatively recent Byzantine Catholics to make a move.

[This message has been edited by Rusnak (edited 03-21-2001).]

Dear FightingIrish,

Laudetur Jesus Christus!

Just an insignificant note to the great wealth of insight that has already been posted.

The Sacred Heart devotion actually does exist in the Eastern Church, as St Nicholas Cabasilas discusses in his work that is published by St Vladimir's Seminary Press.

But it isn't a private devotion as in the West, but something that is integrally woven into the liturgical life of the East.

The Wounded Side of Christ is mentioned in a number of Byzantine Horological texts. Of course, there is nothing preventing you from practicing this devotion in private.

I have an Icon of Christ "Ho Eleimon" where He seems to be pointing to His Wounded Side.

Byzantine Catholic Bishops in the U.S. have emphasized that the Byzantine way of honouring the "Lover of Mankind" is not by showing Christ's Heart, but through the Icon of Christ the Lover of Mankind where He is holding a book on which are inscribed words of His Love.

The recitation of the Rule of the Mother of God which consists of 150 Hail Mary's (the old Irish way of saying the Rosary I might add) is popular among Orthodox monastics and among many Russian laity I have had the privilege of getting to know. It is very popular in the Ukrainian Catholic Church and elsewhere.

"Staretz Zechariah: An Early Soviet Saint" in Chapter 6 outlines the Rosary in the Orthodox tradition.

For me, what is most beautiful about the Eastern Churches is the sense of adoration of God's Beauty and Transcendent Holiness and Greatness.

One is led to become still and "see that I am God."

If you feel called to become a Byzantine Catholic, don't let anything stop you. You would, of course, still be Catholic.

Join us, if this is where God is leading you, in the experience of mystical Communion with the Holy Trinity and participation in Christ according to the mystical Eastern traditions (which include the Holy Syriac and other traditions).

May St Patrick and all the Saints of Eire (and we do venerate them all!) pray for you and continue to guide you with their intercession and inspiration.

Alex

I and most Byzantine Catholics would dissent from this statement.

K.

You're right, I was out of line in saying that. I just get upset when I realize that our Churches don't enjoy in practice the independance they deserve. Codex Canonis Ecclesiarum Orientalium, that doesn't sound very Byzantine does it.

Thanks for catching me in a diatribe. :-)
Matthew

You're right, I was out of line in saying that.

No, you weren�t. Certainly many of the Byzantine Catholics by choice (to paraphrase what Jews call their converts) who write here agree � it�s obviously something written for Eastern Catholics (Byzantine and others) by Romans. Kurt has a point in that the Ruthenians I remember � the Catholic-is-Catholic (ultimately meaning Roman) people � wouldn�t complain about it.

Is Roman civil law really the �spirit of the law over the letter� version and English common law not? I thought it was the other way around.

Serge

<a href="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</a>

[This message has been edited by Rusnak (edited 03-21-2001).]

A few years ago, I took a course on Eastern Canon Law at Catholic University upon the recommendation of Bishop Michael. (A wonderful and holy man!)

The course was taught by a Maronite Chor-Bishop, and member of the Canon Law Society of America. The students were primarily RC seminarians, and theologians who were going to be working for their diocesan 'tribunals'). There were two of us Byzantoons, one of whom is now a priest.

While the RC students were interested in what the 'law' stated, I made it my vocation in life to point out several elements that made us Eastern folks 'second class citizens'. The professor addressed these issues, but it became clear that we were getting the short end of the stick (and I think he was grateful that there was a cradle/ethnic student there who raised hell about it -- charitably, of course).

The issue is: do Eastern folks have Canon Law? Without question: yes.

Do Eastern Folks appreciate the role of Canon Law as does the Western Church? In practice, NO.

For us: Canon Law is something 'out there' that is intended to give consistency to the cases of individual Christians that may arise. Is it the final answer: in the West, oftentimes: yes. In the East: well......there is oeconomia that allows for our bishops and priests to make a decision on what is spiritually best for the soul(s) involved. Us Eastern folks aren't quite willing to do the Pharisee thing and condemn folks outright because of their failure to conform to legal prescriptions. We're more 'grey' in this approach. It's the spiritual welfare of the individual soul that takes precedence. (Although we Eastern folks have our lawyers too. God help us.)

So, regarding the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, I think many Byzantine Christians will say: "Thank you for the book", and then do what is pastorally necessary for the PEOPLE involved, whether it conforms to the book or not.

Salvation is fluid. It's not cast in stone (or laws). Thus, we pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance and do what is in the best interest of the people involved. Yeah, sometimes we make mistakes -even big ones -- but following the 'law' doesn't insure a better result. I'll throw my lot with the graces sent by the Holy Spirit any day over strictly following the dicta of laws.

Blessings!

Actually it consists almost entirely of various eastern canons simply organized together in one book (hence the "Code of Canons" rather than the "Code of Canon Law". Wrong again, Serge.

It is not viewed as foreign by most Byzantines and obviously even with Serge's assertion, it could not be foreign to Byzantines who are not foreign to the Latin patrimony.

[This message has been edited by Kurt (edited 03-22-2001).]

Dear Friends,

Actually, I have to go with Kurt on this one, and I hope that agreeing with Kurt does not mean offending anyone else!

The Byzantine Church has a longer Canonical Law history than the West.

I know we poked fun at the Rudder, the collection of those Eastern Canons, but I cannot imagine anyone seriously doing without having read it.

St John Chrysostom expected Christian Laity to know the Canons of the Church and to follow them. The Rudder was compiled by St Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain precisely in response to this Patristic command. There was no excuse, apparently, for Eastern Christians not knowing their Canon laws governing church discipline, sexual morality etc.

While legitimate critical comment can be made over the relative success with which the West has interpreted and codified Eastern Church law, it would be an offence against our tradition (really) to deny that we don't have our own Canon Law that is entirely in keeping with the spirit of that tradition.

What I admire most about Kurt is his ability to sometimes stand alone in witnessing to his convictions.

That is a beautiful thing in these relativistic times.

Alex