www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News St. Alexis Toth Lecture by Father John Jillions, OCA Chancellor

Given the true-church claim of each side, I understand the Orthodox talking that way.

Yes but it doesn't mean the Orthodox must become just like the Greek Catholics in order to be Catholic.

Alright. May it never be said that I don't give any points for consistency.

This is a fascinating development within this Local Orthodox Church re: the inclusion of two EC Hieromartyrs, even though they were not only not Orthodox, but died resisting both Soviet Russian imperialism and the pressure to join the Russian Orthodox Church at the time.

In addition, the Czech Orthodox Church is seeking to formally glorify Jan Hus and Jerome of Prague as Orthodox saints and has even published an icon and a service to them.

What can be made of this from the Orthodox POV?

Alex

Weren't the Hussites iconoclasts, anti-monastic, against prayers for the dead? How can they be considered as saints? Solely for later being opposed to the Papacy - Hus was not initially, and was in support of one of the claimants.

The Synaxis of the Saints of Carpatho-Rus as proclaimed by the late Metropolitan Nicholas in 2005 does NOT include recognition of the Greek Catholic Martyrs as Saints of the Orthodox Church.I was present at Camp Nazareth in August 2005 when an icon, written for the Synaxis of these saints was presented at the Camp Nazareth Church of SS. Cyril and Methodius in Mercer, PA by the late Metropolitan Nicholas. Present in the audience were several Byzantine Catholic priests and I do not recall if the Metropolitan of Pittsburgh was there that day or not. But I do recall His Eminence speaking to the fact that present in the celebration were Byzantine Catholic lay people and clergy who were able to come together with us - not to share a chalice - but to share the commonality of our shared patrimony (one of His Eminence's favorite phrases.) He had two small Icons of Bless Pavel and Blessed Teodor in his hand and he lamented the reality that in our respective canon of Saints, our Orthodox church could not yet recognize their martrydom as the Byzantine Church could not recognize the martrydom of St. Maxim Sandovich or the role of St. Alexis Toth. That being said, he went on to note, he personally believed that both Blessed Pavel and Blessed Teodor were martyrs and witnesses to our shared Christian heritage and that the private veneration of both men was a noble and worthy thing for our peoples. He placed those small icons in his chapel, and similar ones were placed in some of our churches where a special connection existed to either or both remained. (Blessed Pavel served my grandparent's church in Cigelka before becoming Bishop and was a distant cousin of my father.) The Metropolitan noted that both of the Blessed Martyr Bishops were worthy of remembrance for their �holiness, witness and supreme sacrifice for the Christian faith and for the Rusyn people.� Parsing his words I suppose, but certainly not venerating them FOR their martrydom to the Catholic faith per se, but rather for their steadfast devotion to the faith of their fathers, their Rusyn people and for the true right of Christians to worship in peace with their consciences. I, for one, do not believe that in the Heavenly Kingdom their faith is unrewarded.

We view the new martyrs of the Greek Catholic Church in Slovakia and Transcarpathia not as witnesses to Roman Catholicism, the Pope or for their resistence to Orthodoxy, but rather for their steadfast refusal to accept the illegitimate blandishments of those heterodox minions who sacrificed their Orthodoxy by being lackeys of the Russian communists and their quisling accomplices in Slovakia. How's that for a little Cold War rhetoric? Seems apropos given what's going on politically there today.


I hope that cleared things up. And regardless of what our friend, the Young Fogey might imagine, our fraternal feelings towards our separated brothers and sisters in the Eastern Catholic church do not in any way indicate that our little diocese is wishing to 'return' to anyone. We are where we want to be.

Father Alexis Toth is to be admired for his refusal to bow to antagonism and injustice. I respect him but I ponder if he may have aggravated a tenuous situation. There were RC bishops who were more acceptable of the Greek Catholic Church and its traditions. Only God knows if the controversy could have been more peaceable with a favorable, or at least neutral, position toward our married clergy.
I never see credit given to the GC Bishop of Presov, who appealed to Rome for more tolerance. He continued to send married priests to the US in spite of the muddled ban. Certainly we must also give credit to the married priests who came to the US and continued their mission even in the face of criticism.

From the rumors that I have heard it appears that Pope Francis is reversing this injustice and it is time to put this behind us and renew the missionary spirit that the pioneer Rusyn and Ukrainian priests began in this country.

Christ is risen! May the faith of our people and all Christians also join in the Resurrection!

Fr Deacon Paul

Not meaning to state the obvious, but I think it needs to be pointed out that not-joining Orthodoxy is not the same as leaving (or "schisming from" as some put it) it.

Dear Peter,

Good point. I once wrote Fr. Prof. John Meyendorff (+memory eternal!) on this matter and he wrote back to me saying that the veneration of good people who were not Orthodox is not condemned (by Orthodoxy).

That didn't (as it didn't intend to) address the issue of the liturgical veneration of such.

When Churches that were estranged reunited, the saints glorified during the time of estrangement tended to soon become shared ones.

Thus, St David of Garesja in Georgia is in the Orthodox calendar, even though, in his life-time, he was villified by Greek Orthodox theologians as that "putrefaction from Georgia."

When the Patriarch of Moscow visited New Skete, a former BC Franciscan monastery turned Orthodox, the monks there presented the Patriarch with icons of St Francis and St Clare (whom they continue to venerate).

As of this writing, they have not been excommunicated because of that . . .

Alex

The late Father Meyendorff's point is that of the late Metropolitan Nicholas and others. Some of us Orthodox are not 'cheerleaders' for the wrongs that were imposed by some of my co-religionists in the 20th century on our Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters, nor are all in union with the Pope 'cheerleaders' for wrongs imposed on their behalf. This is the letting go of history that St. Pope John Paul 2 passionately spoke of many times. Letting go of a failure in a relationship and the hateful words and deeds often accompanying the same - whether it is a personal one or a church one - is really tough and requires prayer and patience.

Dear Michael Thoma,

Actually, the Taborite camp of the Hussites were like as you describe - but they clearly rejected Jan Hus's Catholicism (or Orthodoxy, as you please).

That wasn't Hus's fault at all. The Calixtines were Hus's true spiritual descendants and it was this group's praxis that became normative for much of Bohemia for some time (as RC observers writing at the time confirmed).

The Czech Hussites were Catholic in every which way save that they tended to receive Holy Communion in both Kinds (although they didn't make it into an issue and never denied that the whole Christ is present in one Kind only).

They also had married clergy and held their services in Slavonic or a Slavic that was easily understood by the people (as Hus himself insisted).

Finally, they celebrated their own saints such as Jan Hus, Jerome of Prague, Michal Polak, the 240 Hussite Martyrs of Kutna Hora (one of whom, Fr. John, was seen to have incorrupt relics), George of Podebrady and others.

They fasted on July 6th in honour of the martyrdom of Hus.

The Czech Orthodox Church, when it glorifies Hus and Jerome, will establish July 6th as their common feastday (although May 30th, Jerome's date of martyrdom, will also be in the calendar).

Next year, 2015, will be the 600th anniversary of Hus's death and even the Roman Catholic Church will hold events in his honour - believe it or not.

That the Czech Orthodox Church has decided, however it will do this, to glorify Hus and Jerome, shows that it is "thinking with its cupola" as the cultus of these two are very heavily ingrained in the Czech spiritual/cultural soul.

It is interesting that Rome itself took a step toward "exonerating" Hus in 1963 when it removed the cultus of St John Nepomuk from the universal calendar.

The Jesuits there wanted to quell the popularity of Hus's cult (every other village had a statue of him, not to mention Prague itself). So they established the feast of St John Nepomuk close to the festival of Hus on July 6th.

The Jesuits did something similar in Ukraine when they tried to stop the veneration, among EC's no less, of the Orthodox Venerable Martyr St Athanasius of Brest who condemned the Union of Brest because of the involvement of the government and the military.

He was tortured and then taken to the woods where he was forced to dig his own grave, was then shot twice in the dead and was buried alive (which was known from the position of his hands when his body was recovered).

The Jesuits moved the feast of St Josaphat, then Bl. Josaphat from November to September 16th, when the feast of St Athanasius is on Sept. 18th. St Andrew Sheptytsky later, as Metropolitan of Galicia, returned the feastday to November 25th.

Hus is liked by Ukrainians in general owing to his mention in the poem by Shevchenko "The Heretic" where the Ukrainian Bard praises Hus for his defence of pan-Slavic values:

"Receive my Duma about the Holy Czech,
The Great Martyr, the Glorious Hus!

"And I will pray that all Slavs become as heretical
As the great heretic of Constance!"

I read this poem in Ukrainian school and always, therefore, had nothing but a positive view of Hus.

I am proud that my little, insignificant akathist to him is used privately by Orthodox Christians and also by Lutherans who likewise honour him (the High Church ones and a portion of the akathist has been translated into German and set to music).

There are those who are loosely called "Hussites" who have come into the Orthodox Church as a result of Orthodox priests affirming that Hus was all about a return to Bohemia's original Cyrillo-Methodian heritage . . .

Alex

Dear DMD,

Bravo! Bravo!

(Please take a bow - you can do a Selfie and post it here if you like ).

Alex

There really isn't anything in St Alexis Toth's Life that should be offensive to EC's.

In fact, and I return to this point, is it not true that every Eastern Catholic has the right to return to his or her Mother Orthodox Church?

Is that not a fact?

Alex

Interesting, Alex, thanks. I also thank you for having provided that information regarding Hus, and others in the Czech region. We do have a Czech family (husband and father is related to a GC priest) who makes trips back there, on occasion.

Dear Lester,

My father-in-law worked in Prague as part of a Canadian program to assist local business in the Czech Republic and he attended a concert in honour of Hus that was held at the Ukrainian embassy there. Among other things, they did read that section of Shevchenko's poem (which was actually about Shafarik in the first instance).

The Pan-Slavic movement of the 19th century saw the Hussite movement as a throwback to Bohemia's earlier Eastern Christian patrimony and there are articles by Russian Orthodox theologians on him (as well as on Savonarola written in a similar vein - but more connected to St Maximus the Greek who was a disciple of Savonarola's and later converted to Orthodoxy after the martyrdom of Jerome of Florence).

Alex

Alex, thanks for the background. Who would you say are the true spiritual descendants of Hus? The Moravian Church claims it, but are mostly iconoclastic (save one image of Christ, perhaps, and maybe stained glass) with white-washed walls and a simple cross, but they have female clergy; and now is in partnership with the Presbyterians and full communion with the Episcopalians and ELCA. What does their worship consist of? Is it Liturgical?

As to the Czechoslovak Hussite Church, the Czech Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church considers this group heretical, founded by a heretical RC ex-priest - it's recent former patriarch Jan Schwarz, resigned in 2005 and ended up as a Unitarian.

I had a friend who attended medical school in the Czech Republic, he was distraught partially because the culture was so atheist; according to him, few Catholics and almost 90% atheist.