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Loving people as we ought to is a formidable challenge. Far, far easier said than done. But necessary just the same. (Matt. 5:44-48)

And that's precisely what grace is all about and for. Thank you, Jesus, for securing it for us. Grant that your grace would increase in all of your Church so that your command to go and make disciples of all nations will at last be fulfilled (and with power/vigor). Amen.

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In addition to kissing the hand of a Gay Activist priest Pope Francis didn't shut the door to women priests: http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/pope-francis-and-womens-ordination

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It seems to me that one of the problems we are having here is the tension between how to validly and appropriately express the love of God, which is to all mankind....sinners and saints alike....without at the same time appearing to validate the heretical or immoral behavior of one to whom we wish to offer Christ's love.

One thing that seems problematic to me is that we live in a time when the "let's normalize homosexual behavior" crowd is trying to bash down the doors of both Catholic orthodoxy and normal sexual morality, the timing of our Holy Father's actions and the method he chose are not helping the Church stand for God's truth in this matter.

It is a tough situation.

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Originally Posted by Talon
What's the difference between Jesus washing Judas' feet and concelebrating liturgy with him, and Pope Francis kissing the hand of this priest and concelebrating liturgy with him?

Irish Ruthenian already addressed this.

Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
I'm sorry, you are wrong. Go back and read the Gospel accounts. Our Lord does not begin the confection of the Eucharist until Judas has left to betray Him. Only after the betrayer has left does the first Liturgy begin.

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Well, I thought that the first Eucharist was confected after Judas left the assembly. That's the way I read it in John. But it appears that I may have been in error.

Here's the first presentation of the Eucharist, which is in Matthew:

Mat 26:25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

No evidence that Judas stayed after this statement. Everything from here on out indicates that he is not in the picture.

Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

The same thing is present in the Markian account.

Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Luk 22:21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.

The chronology here seems to indicate that Judas is still with them after the Lord has uttered these words. But....here is my question. When priests concelebrate, they all repeat the words of institution. No disciple at that table that night had either power, authority, or right to say anything along with Jesus. Hence, I do not call that "concelebrating."

Last edited by Irish_Ruthenian; 05/26/14 08:29 PM.
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Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
Well, I thought that the first Eucharist was confected after Judas left the assembly. That's the way I read it in John. But it appears that I may have been in error.

That's the point. It doesn't matter. We have a priest who is a known homosexual activist. He should be defrocked. Can you imagine any of the holy fathers kissing this man's hand and concelebrating Divine Liturgy with him? No! He would be defrocked.

In fact, I am quite certain that St Nicholas would have slapped him in the face.

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Originally Posted by Recluse
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
Well, I thought that the first Eucharist was confected after Judas left the assembly. That's the way I read it in John. But it appears that I may have been in error.

That's the point. It doesn't matter. We have a priest who is a known homosexual activist. He should be defrocked. Can you imagine any of the holy fathers kissing this man's hand and concelebrating Divine Liturgy with him? No! He would be defrocked.

In fact, I am quite certain that St Nicholas would have slapped him in the face.

I have to say that I am inclined to agree with you. Somewhere we have lost the ability to stand against error without being seen as "judgmental" and "mean-spirited." Now it appears that we are being told we must be kindly to everyone, regardless of what we may know about them, in order to be "Christlike."

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Jesus didn't hesitate to overturn the tables of those who were profaning the temple. He drove them out.

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Pope Francis also kissed the hand of survivors of the Holocaust.

Did that mean he approved of everything they did?

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Originally Posted by Pasisozi
Pope Francis also kissed the hand of survivors of the Holocaust.

Did that mean he approved of everything they did?

Were they homosexual activist priests? Did he also concelebrate Mass with them?

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Originally Posted by Ray S.
In addition to kissing the hand of a Gay Activist priest Pope Francis didn't shut the door to women priests: http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/pope-francis-and-womens-ordination

Read the article again. (Accent on what Pope Francis actually said, not on the spin that the author of the article wants to put on what Pope Francis actually said.)

And don't rely on the National Catholic Heretic - er, Reporter for your news. wink

The Register is just fine. The National Catholic Reporter is a problem in so many different ways...lol.

Last edited by Talon; 05/27/14 12:14 AM.
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Originally Posted by desertman
Jesus didn't hesitate to overturn the tables of those who were profaning the temple. He drove them out.

He also didn't hesitate to exercise mercy and grace toward sinners either. To each situation its own individual proper response.

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Dear Talon,

Yes, Alice is wonderful.

Perhaps we can start her fan club here?

Would you be interested?

Alex

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Dear Roman refugee,

Well, if that is the Pope's scheme, he may just pull it off.

He might get all these liberals into the Church and just when they think it was safe to come in . . . he might shut the door behind them!

Be careful, your ilk may be next . . . Just can't trust those Jesuits, you know . . .

Alex

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Dear desertman,

But that's not all our Lord did.

And He seemed to condemn the traditional religious establishment in most, if not all, cases.

Otherwise, He would not turn any sinner away and gently led them to repentance and union with Him.

Alex

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