www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Greece takes a stand against EU/homosexual marriage

Any proposal to install “gay marriage” in Greek law would be contrary to the European Convention on Human Rights, said Haralambos Athanasiou, the country’s justice minister, this week. He added that his country should not comply with EU demands to create civil unions or legally recognized same-sex partnerships.

When the Convention “speaks about marriage it speaks [of it being] between a man and woman,” Athanasiou told Greek television. “We are a country that respects traditions, respects human nature, and it’s not possible at least with this government and this ministry, to permit marriage [for same-sex partners.]”

“It’s a little dangerous to simply speak of civil unions. The matter is not easy. The problem is what are the consequences going to be? … Are we going to go as far as talking about adoption [by same-sex partners] next?” he asked.

The fact that most other EU countries have created such laws is no reason for Greece to do so, he said, adding that a committee has been formed to examine the issues of social security insurance, pensions and inheritance. The adoption and custody of children will have to be looked at from a religious, political, and societal perspective, he said.

“Our country has structures,” he said. “We have to look at it from the religious point of view, the political point of view, the social point of view. The ministry of justice will not, under the pressure of anyone, examine such an issue without calmness and composure.”

The denunciation from Athanasiou comes in the midst of a parliamentary push for a change in the law. In November last year, the European Court of Human Rights ruled against Greece in a complaint from homosexual activists, ordering the country to start registering same-sex partnerships.

The socialist coalition government responded with a bill to extend the existing law to same-sex partners. Although that first bill failed, the government announced again in November 2014 that the Greek Family Code would be amended to include same-sex partners.

Meanwhile, an influential leader of the Greek Orthodox Church has threatened to excommunicate any MP who votes in favor of a same-sex “civil unions” bill that is pending in the Greek Parliament. Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus has said in a pastoral letter that “the universal consciousness over the centuries recognizes as normal behaviour the relations between man and woman.”

In a message addressed to Deputy Prime Minister Evangelos Venizelos, Metropolitan Seraphim said, “I beseech you from the heart not to proceed.”

“You will deny yourself the blessing of the most just Lord whose help and protection we daily need as much personally as nationally … during these critical times for our country.”

For the Church’s ancient spiritual writers, called the Church Fathers, “homosexuality is the most disgusting and unclean sin,” Seraphim wrote. They are “an insult against God and man … an unnatural aberration not even observed in animals.”

He blasted efforts at normalization of “this terrible sin of homosexuality, sodomy, unnatural sexual intercourse, pederasty and paedophilia, to appear as a normal state, as diversity.”

LifeSiteNews.com

12 / 12 / 2014

I love Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus!

While I certainly agree with his stand for traditional marriage, I must admit that Metropolitan Seraphim is a bit too far out there for my taste. I mean he has called Pope Francis an "unbaptized laymen."

Metropolitan Seraphim is not afraid to take a stand on any subject. He's the best!

To be honest, I'm not in the least offended by Metropolitan Seraphim calling the Pope of Rome an "unbaptised layman."

It took me a very long time (and long ago) to avoid referring to Orthodox as "schismatics" and thinking of the Orthodox Church as being totally devoid of Grace due to its being out of communion with Rome.

Ironically, this experience enables me to understand the Metropolitan completely in this respect!

Alex

Referring to Pope Francis an an "unbaptised layman". How idiotic!

Actually, we Greek Catholics have a long history of referring to the Orthodox in terms much worse than this . . .

Bl. New Hieromartyr Basil Velichkkovsky, in his published "Rules for Missionaries" addressed this issue and decried the way Greek Catholics in his day referred to even Orthodox saints . . .

Alex

Metropolitan Seraphim is an embarrassing grandstander. He is playing to his audience in Greece for narrow political purposes and frankly he ought to be ignored. He is well educated and likely understands both the power and dangers inherent in the context of what we in the west would call "hate speech". Whatever he says goes in one ear and out the other of most Orthodox who are even aware of him outside of Greece. Whatever Christian truth he may preach is lost in his xenophobic rhetoric.

Thus far, the good metropolitan has been referred to as "idiotic" and "embarrassing grandstander."

Is it permitted on this forum to hurl insults at a bishop?

Alice posted something he spoke in truth against the increasing acceptance of sodomy.

He is a pious and well respected Metropolitan. May God forgive you for your uncharitable rhetoric.

Both sides were quite good hurling invective at each other. Fortunately, most on both sides have stopped it. You definitely don't find bishops on either side doing it, but for a few examples like the above. In any case, I don't think we need to exuse the bad behavior of the few because of bad behavior in the past.

The Metropolitan is guilty of much worse uncharitable rhetoric than he received here.

I stand by what I said. One can respect an office and not the man holding it. One can respect some of his words and teachings while not respecting the individual as in the case of his restatement of church teaching on so called gay marriage. But, this bishop has no respect for others within the church who disagree with his extreme xenophobic views on the Church of Rome,so while I respect his office, I do not respect him. Sorry if that doesn't fit into your worldview.

That is your opinion. I happen to think that he is a good and pious traditional bishop...and I am not alone in that belief. I believe he speaks the truth from the Orthodox perspective. He was mentioned in an article as taking a stand against sodomy...and now this invective attack has been leveled against him. The ad hominems are unfortunate.

I ask again if insults against a bishop are permitted on this forum?

Of course you do.


I figured that out already.


You know nothing about my "worldview."

May God forgive you.

He certainly has a great deal of repsect for others within the Church. He is very outspoken against ecumenism.

Thank God for Metropolitan Seraphim!

To say he is outspoken on ecumenism is an understatement. He borders on the extreme Old Calendarist position. While he may have respect within the Church of Greece, and other local Orthodox Churches, his anti-Catholic rhetoric is not the official position of the Orthodox Churches, including his own Church, who are committed to dialogue with the Catholic Church.

It pains me to see Orthodox Christians be so uncharitable to their fellow Christians. At least we Catholics state, unequivalently now, that the Orthodox are True Particular Churches and that their Holy Mysteries give them Life and communion with the Holy Trinity. Are there differences that need to be over come? Yes, absolutely and I am not trying to down play them.

I would think a Bishop would be a little more charitable, and prudent in his statements, and I pray you don't hold his opinion the Catholics are unbaptized.

Old Metropolitan Philaret would not have been this extreme. BTW, I believe "unbaptised layman" is an oxymoron...at least one must be confirmed to be lay.
One wonders if people like this are given a forum, or encouraged to expatiate like this in order to discredit by extension any hierarch or cleric or anyone opposing, say, gay marriage. I have wondered if Ian Paisley was such a rhetorical convenience for his opponents. We in the US still have plenty of fundementalist Protestant bogeymen, even though that movement is now largely "seeker friendly" or Oprahfied.

Indeed.


He is a canonical bishop in communion with Holy Orthodoxy and he has not been censured in any way.


I think most of the Orthodox in the world support his positions. You call it anti-Catholic....but it is not. He sees Holy Orthodoxy as the fullness of truth, and he yearns for the Catholics to return to the fold. You see anti-Catholic.....many others see great compassion.


There are multitudes who are unhappy with the recent activity of the EP. There is a petition that is circulating....and Mt. Athos just came out with a 128 page document expressing their disappointment.



I think that hurling insults at a Metropolitan is uncharitable. I do not agree with many things that Latin and Eastern Catholic bishops do and say....but I do not call them names.


There are many differences. These differences will not be resolved unless one side compromises their dogmatic beliefs. Dialogue and cooperation on such matters as gay "marriage," abortion, euthanasia, feeding the poor, and other issues is wonderful. But we will not see union any time soon.


My opinions are not the subject here. I am a staunchly traditional Orthodox Christian. The Metropolitan spoke the truth against sodomy....and the Christians here promptly put him on trial because they don't like statements he has made in the past about other issues. So they started spouting ad hominems against him....during the Holy Nativity Fast.....how truly sad.

Metropolitan Philaret liked to quote St Theophan the Recluse:

“You ask, will the heterodox be saved… Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins… I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever.”