www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Praying for the dead

I am new to the forum. I spent the first twenty two yeas of my my in the Roman Catholic church. The last twenty I have been in a protestant church. I recentyl started looking into the Byzantine church. I have many questions about your church. Do you pray for the dead?
Blessings,
Chaph

Welcome to the Forum!

To answer your question: Yes, we do.

For an explanation of our tradition on this, see:

http://www.byzantines.net/moreinfo/allSoulsSaturday.htm

It wasn't until the Protestant Reformation that some Christians got the idea it was wrong to pray for those who have preceded us in death. Prayer for the dead is common to Judaism and all the ancient Christian Churches.

Hmmmm. Brings up a question - hope you don't mind me buttin' in.

Recently renewed acquaintance with someone who since I knew him last, converted to Orthodoxy. He was asking after some mutual acquaintances, one of whom ended his own life a few years ago. My newly renewed contact made mention that under some strict Orthodox practice, it was not permissable even to pray for the soul of a suicide. This struck me as extremely odd. Me, I figure prayer and love are never wasted nor out of place, no matter what the Lord decides to do about things, and though it seems HIGHLY improbable to us that the soul of one who took his own life might be saved, the Lord told us to pray for the impossible, and to do it with confidence and trust.

Can anyone shed some light here?

Thanks,

And yup, we sure do pray for the dead. And with some of 'em.


Sharon

Chaph:

Praying for the dead is found in the book Macabees. As was mentioned before, it was common practice to offer these prayers for loved ones after death.

Remember, protestants have a bible which does not reflect the Septuigent OT which has always been used by the Christian Church. Here is some good reading on the Septuigent for you

Septuigent [canapologetics.net]


Since it is not in "Scripture" (Scripture being determined by those Apostolic Church - both catholic and orthodox in the early church ) Protestants don't believe in prayer for the dead because it is not in their revised Scripture. But as you will read in the above article, the Scripture they have is not the version that the early Apostolic church utilized.

I hope this helps.

Gina

Thanks for the information. But there must bo someting wrong with me. Maybe I have been influenced by non-catholics for to long a periond of time. At any rate, the info was a little unclear. Are these folks in purgatory? I thought that Jesus death on the cross was sufficient for us to get into heaven. He told the theif on the cross, "today you will be with me in paradise." I don't mean to be difficult. It is just hard to understand.
God bless,
Chaph

Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics believe that when a person falls asleep in the Lord that that person goes to a place that is a foretaste of eternity. Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics do not believe that these souls go to a purgation place or state to bask in the fires of a helllike state for purifications purposes. Prayers can and do help those souls attain a greater place in the kingdom of God. Orthodox even believe that some souls on the cusp of Hell can still be salvagable by fervent prayers.

JoeS

JoeS wrote:

I think a clarification is in order. Joe's statement implies that the Roman Church teaches the above. As the CCC explains, this purification "is entirely different from the punishment of the damned." (Section 1031)

There are a variety of explanations of exactly what happens during this "purification" process. None of these are considered to be official teaching. Orthodox also have differing understandings.

Joe's statement....

....pretty well encapsulates what is essential Catholic doctrine.

Some further reading on the subject:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PURGATOR.htm

I have found the following article to be helpful:

http://cte.rockhurst.edu/stramarad/th1course/th1reading/readings/purg.html

A snippet:

Dear Chaph, the Constantinopolitan tradition has developed a very beautiful and rich tradition of prayer for the dead. You may remember All-Souls Day from your Roman days, in our tradition we have 5 and in some particular traditions 6 general commemorations for the dead [All-Souls days].

When someone dies, there are services from the time of death of the person starting with the recitation of the Psalter before the body. The priest may say the first Parastas [litany and Canon for the Dead, an adaptation of Matins] right in the place where the person reposed, and/or a Vigil for the dead (combined Vespers and Matins], followed by another service the next day in the church.

Although not strictly traditional, many Greek Catholics also have the Divine Liturgy celebrated before the burial.

There is usually one more short litany for the dead [Panakhida] after the Parastas/Divine Liturgy followed by the graveside service and burial. On the 3rd, 9th, and 40th days after death, as well as the anniversary, the Panakhida is celebrated.

There are also individual prayers one can always say in commemoration for the departed, such as Psalm 118 or the Canon and Akathist for the Departed. The Akathist for the departed is available on-line at http://www.sisqtel.net/~williams/akathist-repose.html

There are many other traditions associated with the burial, such as the making of boiled wheat [kutya or koliva] or a loaf of bread [kolach] which is eaten after the Parastas. There are also many family variations for commemorations in the home on the anniversaries of loved ones.

Chaph,

I was a Protestant minister for most of my adult life. I converted to the BC Church almost five years ago.

Purgatory is the Roman Catholic way of answering a very important question which most Protestants will admit exists but will never give an answer to. "If martyrs go to heaven straightway but most who die in the Lord do not, where do they go?"

Eastern Christians do not define that place but do pray for the dead. What do Protestants do? They ignore those who have died physically and thus deprive themselves of the Communion of Saints and the blessed communion of most people who have eternal life. What a sadness!!

Dan L

Praying for the dead makes sense if you accept the communion of the saints. The Church is not confined or restricted by space or time, but exists for all eternity. The members of the Church are part of the one eternal body of Christ, regardless of where they happen to be.

On thing to consider that in Scripture, it is said that

"nothing unholy enters heaven".

Therefore, the process of theosis.

Protestants sing about the "Refiner's Fire", when our bodies die, our souls continue to be refined. Not a fire that is associated with Gehenna but a purification of the soul.

We loose during this process - the desire to sin - i.e. our fallen nature. We live with that desire here on earth that is why we suffer temptations.

Even a Protestant who "is saved", does not live their life with a perfect nature or free from sinning or the desire to sin.

But during the process after death, we are freed from sinful desire as to become "holy" for entrance into heaven. We become like minded- and like natured to what God would have us be truly - without any struggle with our fallen nature. We desire only then what pleases God - all of the time 24/7/365 - but we all know that there is no 24/7/365 in heaven

Much is lost when most protestants confuse Redemption with Salvation.

I hope this explains things to you in clearer light.

Thanks for the reply's. It has become easier to understand. Dan L, I wish there was a way that I could get your e-mail address. I guess we can't get each others e-mail address. I have several more questions about the BC church. Where can I go to get the answers? I am seriously thinking about converting over to BC.
God bless,
CHAPH

Chaph,

Good to hear of your initial desire to seek conversion. It is well worth the effort. One thing people marvelled over was my lack of hesitation to forego Eucharist until I was chrismated (Confirmed for the Latin tradition). People could not believe that I happily gave that up after having offered communion to others for 27 years in my United Methodist Churches.

I have no qualms about putting my email address here. laufferc266@sbcglobal.net

Dan Lauffer

Chaph,

Why not just send me a private message. You don't need to fuss with my email address that way.

Dan L