www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Message from Orthodox Syria

Because I don't have your bias. Thus far, I am seeing a Putin who stands against issues of moral decay such as: gay "marriage", homosexual progaganda, and abortion. He is also trying to prevent the further genocide of Christians in Syria. Orthodox Churches are being built in Russia at a brisk pace.

I also believe that the EU is the worst thing that could happen to a nation. Now you may say that I have my own bias...and that is true. And you may say that Putin uses moral and Christian precepts to mask another agenda.....and I do not know....because I do not read hearts. You say that he regretted the dismantling on the Soviet Union and venerates Lenin. I did not see those statements, and I do not know when he said them, and I do not know the context in which he said them. Does he still feel that way? I do not know. I do not read hearts. Christ can change hearts in the blink of an eye.

And here you are again....spouting the same venom right after you asked prayers for him. I thought you were going to give it a bit of a rest?

By the way....is Canada not considered to be a socialist?

You don't need to read hearts, just the news. The "moral" stances taken by the Russian government are a sham, as Sergei Chapnin (editor of the MP's Church Gazette) points out in this excellent article. [firstthings.com]:



He called the collapse of the Soviet Union a great geopolitical tragedy in a public address; that said, his thoughts are a lot more nuanced than Western media lets on. Obviously Marxist ideology has no interest to him, though he is also not a knee-jerk anti-socialist.

I agree with you that Alex's reflexive anti-Putin stance is silly, but we should also not be so gullible when Putin (or any politician) makes noises about restoring Christian morality.

The news? That's pretty funny. Who is being naïve now? We cannot judge the hearts of men. There is only one who judges hearts.

For every "excellent article" you post....there is an "excellent article" which sets forth the opposing view.


I have not read this quote in context. Does it mean he supports the re-establishment of the Soviet Union? In September 2014, he accused the Bolsheviks of treachery.


I will agree that politicians are strange creatures.

You support socialism. Is that gullible? Should I judge you harshly for that? No. I do not read hearts.

But I will support someone who speaks for Christian morality and takes action (Putin).... rather than someone who aggressively opposes Christian morality and takes action against it (Obama).

I can tell you one thing. The Orthodox and Eastern Catholics in Syria are very grateful to Putin at this moment.

Again, I'm not talking about judging hearts. Look at the actual fruits of Putin's policies. For instance, you praise his stance against abortion. Have you looked at the recent abortion statistics in Russia?


If that's true, then I'll wait for you to find another article from another MP insider (like Chapnin is) that addresses any of Chapnin's points.


Neither have most people who were sharing the quote as some evidence of his desire to resurrect the Soviet Union.

Yes. And I don't blame Putin for it. Russia was under the communist yoke for a vey long time.....a communism which forced demonic ideology such as atheism and abortion upon the people. This will take a long time to reverse. Thank God that Putin often reveals his pro life stance.


It is a subjective article from a Russian journalist. I've seen articles which refute some of his accusations and offer a counter emotional response. But I promised myself, (and brother Alex), that I was not going to go tit for tat. It only inflames the passions.

By L. Todd Wood - - Monday, September 28, 2015

TASS, the Russian state news service reported today on Vladimir Putin’s comments to Charlie Rose in an interview held in the United States prior to Mr. Putin’s speech to the United Nations. Mr. Putin couched his comments in the vein of personal hardship rather than the dream of a new Russian empire.

Upon being asked by Mr. Rose about Russian expansionism, he replied, “Your questions make me happy. Somebody is always suspecting Russia of having some ambitions, there are always those who are trying to misinterpret us or keep something back. I did say that I see the collapse of the Soviet Union as a great tragedy of the 20th century. Do you know why?

“First of all, because 25 million of Russian people suddenly turned out to be outside the borders of the Russian Federation. They used to live in one state; the Soviet Union has traditionally been called Russia, the Soviet Russia, and it was the great Russia. They used to live in one country and suddenly found themselves abroad. Can you imagine how many problems came out?” Mr. Putin said.

“First, there were everyday issues, the separation of families, the economic and social problems. The list is endless. Do you think it is normal that 25 million people, Russian people, suddenly found themselves abroad? The Russians have turned out to be the largest divided nation in the world nowadays. Is that not a problem? It is not a problem for you as it is for me,” he commented on PBS.

Mr. Putin’s comments come as Russia is landing a large expeditionary force in Syria and building multiple military facilities near Latakia, conceivably to protect their naval base at Tartus, Syria, and to support their longtime ally Bashar Assad of Syria in his civil war. Russia has also stated its intention to fight the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria in the area and has signed a coordination agreement with Iran, Iraq and Syria to that end.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/28/l-todd-wood-putin-breakup-ussr-great-tragedy-russi/

Aha! Thank you dear Alice....finally some context.

If I might add....I have some very dear friends who are Syrian Christians. They have been in America for ten years but most of their family still lives in Syria. It is interesting to hear their perspective. The people in Syria see the U.S president and his administration as incompetent at best.....intentionally apathetic at worst. The weapons and ammunition and vehicles that were given to the so-called "freedom fighters" ended up in the hands of ISIS. They feel as if this administration does not care whether they live or die.....in fact....many feel as if America is aiding and abetting ISIS.

On the other hand, they see Russia as the great hope of their survival....and Putin as a hero.

Go figure.

Hello folks!

I withdraw my earlier post here and apologise to Recluse and Alice for what I said.

Perhaps we really shouldn't be talking about issues that cause such emotional reactions in . . . some of us.

Time will tell what all this will lead to.

I will join Reclusion in reclusion and perhaps I might even bump into him somewhere there . . .

I've proven, time and again, that I'm not worthy to be a participant on this forum.

I apologise to the Administrator for all of this and thank him for his wise counsel - much of which I regrettably have chosen to ignore.

God bless you all!

Alex

Did somebody say they loved Putin? You are putting words in people's mouths.


How do you know that no one else on this forum is not familiar with "politicians of all stripes."



There is no doubt about that.



Some things I believe and others things are up for discussion.


Absolutely.


I have never seen a statement from him which claims that he wants to re-form the Soviet Union. He did say that millions suffered tragically due to the collapse of the Soviet Union.


Wow! That's quite an accusation!



Careful with that beam in your eye, Alex.


Wow! You are really gifted at putting words in people's mouths!



So Canada is not socialist? I asked the question because I do not know about Canada's political situation. I have only been to Vancouver....and it was years ago. There is no need to get so defensive.


There will come a time, God willing, through the prayers of our holy fathers, if I am alive on this Earth, when I will repent of many things.....many times. I am a wretched sinner.

If Putin turns out to be the monster that you depict him to be....if his statements against abortion and gay "marriage" and homosexual propaganda, and euthanasia, and other moral precepts turns out to be bold faced lies.....if his support for the Holy Orthodox Church turns out to be nothing but a grand façade....if his defense of the Christians in Syria is a fantasy......then I will be the first to admit that I was deceived.....and I will repent of any support I have ever shown to him.

Furthermore, I am deeply sorrow that you have become so afflicted by this conversation.

Please forgive me.

R

The problem with many of those nationalities in the Soviet Union was they were part of that country against their will. They were invaded, annexed, or otherwise taken over by Russia. The people were never Russian and wanted their independence back.

As I was driving somewhere this morning, I was enlightened to remember something Saint John Paul II coined in his quest for spiritual engagement and rapprochement with the many Orthodox who get passionate in anger and suspicion about the alleged or actual slights and suffering caused by historical actions of the Catholic church and/or Popes towards them:

"Purification of memory". It is a good thing for all to practice.

Amen.

Well boo boo Mr. Putin. If Russia hadn't invaded the Baltics and other states and promoted Russian immigration there, we wouldn't have this problem. So now he sees himself as the protector of these Russians outside Russia with the right to intervene and annex territory if necessary. But he would certainly not tolerate this same attitude directed towards Russia from the various countries that have large minorities in Russia.

Boo boo?

Crimea was Russian territory at one time, was it not? The people there wanted to be part of Russia again, did they not? Well, I suppose that debate could go on for a long time depending on your particular bias.

But thank God he is the only one with courage enough to be the protector of the Christians in Syria.

Stupid spell correct. That was supposed to be boo hoo. Yes, Crimea was Russian territory. And Kaliningrad was Polish and German territory and the Poles and Germans would like to be part of Poland and Germany again but I don't think Putin would react kindly to an invasion and annexation because his rhetoric only runs one way. And while I am glad Syrian Christians are benefiting from Russia intervention they are simply his excuse to get a foothold in the Middle East.

This is your opinion....and your bias. I don't agree.

I am not in the camp of "Let's demonize Putin for everything."

But of course, we are all entitled to our opinions.