www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Left Behind

I hate to post anything on this topic, but I have to argue this nonsense with my father and mother, who have read all these silly books.

I did read some of the church fathers on the topic and the consensus is clear. However, protestants, in their grand inconsistancy, have been quoting a sermon by Pseudo-Ephraem.

Here you go.

On the Last Times, the Anti-Christ, and the End of the World

A Sermon by Pseudo-Ephraem

Section 2
We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated), and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom. Why therefore are we occupied with worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: "Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!" For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins. And so, brothers most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of the world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord. And we think that the earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early. Commotions are brought forth, wars of diverse peoples and battles and incursions of the barbarians threaten, and our regions shall be desolated, and we neither become very much afraid of the report nor of the appearance, in order that we may at least do penance; because they hurl fear at us, and we do not wish to be changed, although we at least stand in need of penance for our actions!

Blah blah blah.

Anyway, some of the weirdo protestant fruit-cakes are ignoring scripture, the rest of the Church fathers, and Church tradition and using this.

Any thoughts?

BTW, for any of you that don't think this kind of stuff is destructive, email me and I'll tell you about my folks and my father's parents.

Brother Cizinec, I can relate to your situation. It is typical of many within the 'protesting' communities.

These folks are good people; but unfortunately for many of them, there is no consistency in the theology.

For the 'bible-bound' my general question is: does the Holy Spirit, in response to prayer, trump Scripture. That is: is GOD more powerful than the Bible?

For those who acknowledge this, I then ask them: if, after reading scripture, you are drawn to a particular perspective, then should you follow the 'prayer lead' or the scripture quote? If they say scripture, then the response is: so, the Holy Ghost and His inspiration is not from God? (That makes a lot of folks uncomfortable.) In that case, why bother praying? The 'words of scripture' are it. God is just bound by what is in scripture. (That makes many folks REALLY uncomfortable.)

There is a real danger in getting into pissing contests over scripture verses. The scriptures, as determined by a Council, contain -- as a whole -- the teaching of Christ. To take individual verses as being "the DIVINE LAW" is both dangerous and stupid. There are many contradictory verses in the Scripture and to choose one or the other as "THE TRUTH!!" is just prideful. Witness the "it was day and evening, the Xth day" in Genesis. But the sun didn't get created until we had a few of these 'days'. So, what kind of day are we talking about here? The Psalms (my favorite -- NOT) talk about bashing the heads of my enemies' babies against the rocks. But Christ said: love your enemies. So, which verse are ya gonna take?

There are two perspectives on responding; the first is: the Scriptures are a composite to teach us what God wills. Read them all and then come to a conclusion through prayer. The second is: Use New Testament scripture ONLY to show the pathway because Jesus has closed the Old Testament books because of His death and resurrection.

My uncle's dad, a die-hard North Carolina Hills Baptist, was appalled when this little Catholic kid from Boston came a visiting with his aunt and uncle. When the family was scooted off to the local "Bible Baptist" church down the road, the kid remained behind and was discovered at the breakfast table doing his school work -- including 5th grade "Bible History". "Daddy", who was also the county sheriff, was unhappy that this 'young'un' wasn't in church, but was more surprised to find a Frenchman (most Catholics in NC were 'French') under his roof and this Frenchman/Catholic was doing Bible study. The kid got 'quizzed'; "Daddy" was impressed. And when the family got home from the local Bible Baptist church, my uncle was directed to eat a fast breakfast and then to take this "young'un" to the French Church in Asheville so he could go to church. My uncle, needless to say, was not amused. But I went to church in Asheville, NC that morning while the rest waited in a nearby restaurant. (My Greek Aunt discovered that the owners were 'patriotes' from our part of Greece. Another twist of fate!!!)

The lesson learned was this: despite all the crap that surfaces in Christian inter-necine battles, the good people are there. My uncle's Bible-believing Baptist Daddy found himself with a 10 year old Frenchman/Catholic who was obviously a 'believer'. And he did the right thing: "Take this young'un to the French church downtown so he can go to church." And my Marine uncle followed orders and delivered this kid to the steps of the church.

So, for me, I look for and most often find really good people in all sorts of places. And I've learned not to judge anybody by their ecclesiastical passport. I just smile, and extend my hand and say "Hi!". And if their peace is from God, they will respond and I know that I've found other children of God. If they demand to know my pedigree, and demand my papers, then I know that it's time to "shake the dust from my sandals" and move on.

Simplistic? Maybe. But at least I can sleep at night with the knowledge that God's angels hover over my bed 'cause I'm not condemning anyone and only ask for kindness. And they'll protect me because I've asked for them to be there.

Blessings!

[This message has been edited by Dr John (edited 05-28-2001).]

Repeated post.

[This message has been edited by Dr John (edited 05-28-2001).]

Dumb repeat of the posting.

[This message has been edited by Dr John (edited 05-28-2001).]

Stupid repeat needed to be deleted.


[This message has been edited by Dr John (edited 05-28-2001).]

Jeffrey,

Regarding "Left Behind" you should read a small book by Scott Hahn called "Lambs Supper" it explains the book of Revelation is mostly the Divine Liturgy explained. It is not the doom and gloom book the Protestant church likes to protray. Here is an example from the book,

Rev 1:13 (a high priest) Rev 8:3-4:11:1; 14:18(an altar) Rev 4:4 many more (a priest) Rev 1:13 (vestments) Rev 14:4 (celibacy) Rev 2:17 (Eucharistic Host)

Hope this Helps!

Saint Sebastion Pray For Us!
Ray S.

Brother Jeffrey: dump all that stuff save the Scripture and the texts of the liturgy.

Read them; pray them; try to put them into effect in your life. If you have a question, then pray hard and ask your priest. Satan's wiles come in all sorts of ways, including books. Beware of them. Pray.

Blessings!

Tim LeHaye and his Dispensationalist friends are the ones who are left behind. And that's all I have to say about that.

Dan L

[This message has been edited by CD Lauffer (edited 05-29-2001).]