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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 8
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Posts: 8
Liberalism, modernism, and Freemasonry should be condemned and are condemned by the Church. Modernism is the synthesis of all heresies.

You want us to apologize for what, my friend RussoRuthenianOGC? Will you apologize for the Massacre of the Latins? How about the lack of support the Byzantines provided for the First Crusade they wanted called in the first place? The thousands of Frenchmen thousands of miles from home starving to death because the Emperor didn't want to help those mean Normans take back from the Holy Land from the Muslims, who then got real angry they didn't just hand over Palestine to him?

The Fourth Crusade was excommunicated when they sacked Constantinople. Blame the Venetians and leaders who decided to not tell their army they were cut off from the Church!

To chalk up the atrocities of East-West tension to a one-sided ordeal lacks nuance and is plainly ignorant and provocative. Read into history and you will see the East-West tensions were both a result of Schism and clear geopolitical factors... perhaps the tensions would have faded if it was not for that catalyst at the start of the First Crusade, when the Emperor realized his military allies were the Normans who stole Italy from him!

Anyway, you are right to denounce Novus Ordo and Vatican II, and I'd say Utroque is wrong to hold it up as not an issue. However, the roots of Schism are deep. Can the Sedevacantes, SSPX, Traditionalist Catholics just "become Orthodox?" No, they can't, because many of them are Thomists, and the Western Scholastic Theology does not align with Eastern Theology. Yet these theologies coexist in the modern Catholic Church, for reasons I do not fully understand.

Joined: Jul 2017
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Posts: 94
Apologizing to move reunion forward for the mistakes of the past. To start with a clean slate. The last thing we need is historical grievances surfacing to sabotage reunion. The goal is one Church and one Chalice. That means owning the historical record. Admitting and condemning its mistakes. Then we will overcome it together. We will from that point forward be a reconciled, Catholic family working to preserve the bond of love at all costs: there won't be any more bad blood between us.

The chief fuel behind schisms like SSPX or Old Believers in the Orthodox Catholic context is alienation. Providing the faithful of these groups a means of acceptance, an ecclesiastical structure in which they can be heard and even worship and flourish, a warm embrace and a hot meal, generational assets for their children and grandchildren tends to suck the oxygen out of the schism. A handful of schismatic leaders end up being left with no faithful and no generational future. It is important to listen to the issues of these groups, accommodate them in the new paradigm, even work out syntheses where possible. Then schism is overcome.

I appreciate your take on Freemasonry, liberalism, modernism. We agree on most things. In that we can reforge a Catholic family, East and West. We don't have insurmountable obstacles between us. Thank you for appreciating my desire for reunion of Orthodox Catholic and Roman Catholic Christians.

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Christ is in our midst!!

I have reviewed this thread from its first post to the last--the last which I will not approve to see the light of day. I find the posts by the initiator of this thread to be condescending to the members of this Board who are members of the Catholic Church. The posts display an uncharitable tone that is unacceptable based on the rules under which this Board operates.

We do not tell other Apostolic Churches or ecclesial communities how to run, reform, or organize their praxis.

I suggest that a rereading of the thread that tops this portion of the forum may be beneficial. We are here to charitably dialogue and learn from each other. The veiled polemics of Latin traditionalists has no place here, nor do any other polemics that strike at the heart of the charity we have defined in "Who We Are."

I am locking this thread.

Bob
Universal Moderator

Last edited by theophan; 10/26/17 12:12 AM.
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