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That's kind of a slap in the face to the Pope lol. Especially since the orthodox are the ones lacking communion.

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You may wish to be circumspect in what you say here. Some feel that it is not the Orthodox Church that is out of communion, but rather the Roman Church. That knife kind of cuts both ways.

*The side issue to this is that it makes it very frustrating to determine where the Church really is.....Orthodoxy or Catholicism. I tend to think along the lines of David Bentley Hart who asked "What schism?" Perhaps the Church is still just one but we don't know it because all of us are so full of ourselves. Both Churches have incorrupt saints, miracles, holy people, and valid Sacraments.

**sigh** I'm just so tired of the "schism." Would be nice to see it end before I die.

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Christ is Risen!!

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That's kind of a slap in the face to the Pope lol. Especially since the orthodox are the ones lacking communion.

Not really. Actually it was a sign of respect in that His All-Holiness respectfully said--nonverbally--that we are, sadly, not in communion. If his seat had been off to the side as the Pope is seated when he has visited the Phanar, he would not have had to do what he did. However, his seat was right next to the Pope in front of the altar where the full liturgical celebration would be taking place. BTW, the Pope's chair is moved so that it is not in the way at the same time.

So what would you have had them do, let His All-Holiness just stand there and have things move around him as if he were a post?

Bob

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Inquiring Byzantine:

Christ is in our midst!!

I agree with Irish Ruthenian--

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You may wish to be circumspect in what you say here. Some feel that it is not the Orthodox Church that is out of communion, but rather the Roman Church. That knife kind of cuts both ways.

*The side issue to this is that it makes it very frustrating to determine where the Church really is.....Orthodoxy or Catholicism. I tend to think along the lines of David Bentley Hart who asked "What schism?" Perhaps the Church is still just one but we don't know it because all of us are so full of ourselves. Both Churches have incorrupt saints, miracles, holy people, and valid Sacraments.

**sigh** I'm just so tired of the "schism." Would be nice to see it end before I die.

This issue is much more complicated than you seem to think. Remember that in the first millennium the Christian East was where the theological action was taking place. It was there that the Christological formulae were settled. Remember, too, that once Rome stopped using Greek and the Western Empire fell, the West became isolated and out of the mainstream. When our brethren speak of the fall of the Roman Empire, they mean Byzantium in 1453, not 500. The hardening of attitudes--Cardinal Humbert notwithstanding--is a function of increasingly bad relations much later than 1054: the Counter Reformation efforts in Eastern Europe and the Middle East after the Islamic conquest to touch on some things.

I think it more accurate that we have a family that grew apart and began to speak different languages so that gradually neither could understand each other.

The one thing that is accurate is that we are impoverished by this.

Bob

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I don't understand why the Orthodox view Catholics as not having a valid Liturgy. Catholics certainly don't think that of the Orthodox. So it confuses me why any Eastern Catholics would side with the orthodox over Catholics?

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I think you will find that it is the "TraddieDox" who do not accept the validity of the Roman Sacraments, much as in the same way that Traddie Romans do not accept the validity of Orthodox Sacraments. They are both on the fringe side of their respective eclessologies. Most Orthodox I have read accept the validity of Roman Sacraments and vice-versa.

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That's good to know. It seems there are always camps within camps in the Church Universal.

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if only the people in Muslim lands had the option of embracing Jesus Christ. not all is dark. there are untold numbers of secret Believers in Muslim lands who have head the Gospel preached by evangelists. not just radio, but other means as well

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"Orthodoxy is Euro-centric" ???? Ah, Antioch, Alexandria, and Jerusalem are ot in Europe, and Constantinople barely so. That's nt even to mention Addis Ababa, or the growing numbers of Malabars and Malankars in India.

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