www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Ukrainian Catholic Hierarchy on Filioque

Dear Friends,

If this has been brought up previously, please excuse this thread.

On September 1, 2005, the Ukrainian Catholic Hierarchy of Canada issued a letter on the Creed and the Filioque - signed by the Metropolitan and all our bishops up here.

It asks our parishes to stop using the Filioque in the Creed and even provides a link to a study guide on this matter.

I've asked many priests and laity, both Catholic and Orthodox, up here - haven't come across one who says he or she has heard of this.

Go to this page:

http://www.archeparchy.ca/news/index.htm

Then scroll all the way down where you'll see a link to the Pastoral Letter on the Creed and the Filioque.

What do y'all think?

Alex

Amen! Amen! Amen!

I'm glad this has happened. OTOH, wouldn't it be nicer if a document like this came from the Synod as a pastoral letter to the entire UGCC rather than the way it was been done up to now - eparchy by eparchy?

But this is still great news!

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

dear Kobzar:

Apparently, the issue was both raised and approved at the Synodal-Patriarchal level, however it was concluded that while it was timely for this measure to be implemented in the Metropolia of Canada and the Metropolia of the US, it was judged UN-timely to implement this in Ukraine at this time (insufficient preparation of the laity or something like that).

I think the Australian eparchy is moving in this direction (it's on their website).

My question is what's the implementation in the US. When the US Archeparchy implemented it last year, I was/am unsure whether this applied as well to his "suffrugan eparchs".

Did it?
Are they implementing?

Herb

Guys ,

I really can't add anything ' Official ' to this

BUT

on a certain occasion in September I did make my Profession of Faith without the Filioque

This was with the active encouragement of my SF.

As to whether this was Exarchate practice - well my response would have to be which Exarchate :p - and anyway , as I do not as yet know the Creed in Ukrainian - how would I know if it was included normally or not

Anhelyna - struggling with learning the Lord's prayer in Ukie

Should have added - and it's too late to edit now

My SF btw is Australian

The decision of the Patriarchal Synod is news to me. The fact that the laity have not been 'prepared', sadly, is not. I get the feeling Ukraine will be the last place to go "filioque free", especially those places that feel "Orthodox" is a dirty word.

I know the UGC Eparchy of Parma is doing away with the filioque - it has not been included in the text of the Divine Liturgy promulgated by Bishop Robert (see "Sacrifice of Praise").

Oυτις ημιν φιλει ου φροντιδα | Nemo Nos Diliget Non Curamus

Dear Anhelyna,

As I tell my Ukie religion students, it is actually NOT a sin to pray in English!

God will accept prayers from Ukrainian Catholics EVEN when they don't pray in Slavonic or Ukrainian!

Sorry if this comes as a shock to any on the Forum!

Alex

Dear Kobzar,

However, I have yet to run into someone up here who has heard of this Pastoral Letter to "Let our People Go Filioque-Free."

The biggest looks of surprise are on the faces of the Orthodox . . .

Our priests in a number of our parishes have either a) not heard of this; b) wouldn't care to implement it anyway.

The same can be said of the Patriarchal Sobor's directive not too long ago to adopt a new Ukie translation of the Pater Noster and the Ave Maria . . .

It just hasn't taken at the parish level.

I, on the other hand, memorized the new translation and, truth be told, it took me a week before I could get used to it.

But I did! And why? Because our bishops said so!

That's why . . .

Alex the Obedient

Alex ,

I agree with you here - but to me it is common courtesy to try and learn some Ukie .

Yes I can manage the Litany responses - and I do take a copy of the readings , in English, with me most of the time .

However - since the language used is the vernacular for most of the folk there - I have no right to expect the language used to be English . If I wish to be there as part of the Family , then I have to learn to take part in the Communal Prayers in the language that the family uses.

Well - at least that's the way I look at it :p

Anhelyna

The reality in Western Ukraine - but ONLY there, not in the rest of Ukraine - is as described; an immediate attempt to get rid of That Word would have a drastic and undesirable effect. Patience is the elixer of many things.

However, one might begin by suggesting (strongly) that this fratricidal term certainly does not belong in use among the monastics, who are supposed to be examples of fraternity.

The Final Solution is one which will render the Church Filioque-Rein

Incognitus

Anhelyna,

Of course, one could do what I do - memorise all the stuff in Church Slavonic! It'd make travelling around the Slavic Orthodox Churches easier, not to mention marking one as rather old-fashioned.

Of course, the accent with which one pronounces one's Church Slavonic can be a contentious issue too...

Just my two hrivs =)

Edward

Edward,
I have heard of this pronounciation issue, but only recently have experienced it myself. Around here the natives say, "Hospodi" (us second and third generation americans of Carpatho-mountain descent) and the Russians here (new Americans) say "Gospodi." I don't know how it is everywhere, just here in my little neck of the woods.

Well, there's always Kyrie eleison!

Incognitus

Getting rid of the Filioque now it will be getting rid of those latin/protestant seats next. I can't help but think all this is in the one document written to the Eastern Churches at Vatican II. How long ago since that closed and NOW the Ukrainian bishops discover the instruction issued to them so many years ago to de-latinise and what have they done over all those year...next to nothing. They moan about the Youth as if it was an illness and not normal stage of development and stood by while Ukrainian nationalism was substituted for Catholic theology. They have left it all too late. It was all you come to me and not enough of going out in service to the people. I however believe that Christ will win out and frail men will go on to lead us and slowly the papal messages of 100 yrs will filter through as just as slowly an Ecumenical council's message will also very slowly start to register 40-50 yrs after it closed. I suppose where there is movement no mater how late it should be seen as sign of life.

I find that in most places, excepting the Old Country (the term applies both to Eastern Europe as well as North-East America), the Russian pronunciation of Church Slavonic is more common - no doubt due to the fact that Russians get everywhere and are present in somewhat larger numbers.

It's not just the G/H in Gospodi/Hospodi Pomilui, but also the remnants of the Yat'- Ѣ. Does one pronounce the end of the doxology (и во вѢки вѢкѡвъ) as I Vo Vieki Viekov, or I Vo Viki Vikov, or I Vo Veki Vekov? Don't anybody complicate things by adding in и во вѢки вѢкѡмъ now...