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Originally Posted by ajk
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
Originally Posted by ajk
What is going on? How about some more tangibles, like links. What exactly did Fr. Loya say and when did he say it?

Here's one. He calls it out as a FRAUD!!!

I hear him call it a "hoax" not a fraud. It would be better if he could (somehow) provide references for his numbers and statistics. The general reporting of the details of the numbers and statistics, and their interpretation, has been sloppy science. Maybe it's just being dumbed-down too much for the public. This, however, is fodder for hysterical and shallow reporting by a press and media that present sensationalism as truth. As a result, i don't know what to believe. So I appreciate Fr. Loya's frustration and would only offer to go a little easier on church leaders, bishops, (some) politicians etc. While they do blunder, their legitimate fear is that they are misrepresented, allow themselves to be misrepresented and stereotyped and shouted down. At the least, Fr. Loya here is asking good questions and adding a needed counterpoint in the discussion.


fraud frôd►

n. A deception practiced in order to induce another to give up possession of property or surrender a right.
n. A piece of trickery; a trick.

hoax hōks►

n. An act intended to deceive or trick.
n. Something that has been established or accepted by fraudulent means.
transitive verb
To deceive or cheat by using a hoax.

Maybe I missed the difference??

Then I looked up synonyms

Thesaurus
hoax noun

Synonyms for hoax

counterfeit, fake, forgery, humbug, phony (also phoney), sham

Words Related to hoax

copycat, knockoff

copy, facsimile, replica, reproduction

dummy, mock-up

fraud, gaff, imposture, spoof, swindle

simulation, synthetic

bastard, brummagem, duffer, shoddy


Last edited by Irish_Ruthenian; 10/08/20 04:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
"Willingly ignorant" is not an insult. It is a simple statement of fact.
I see you have not chosen to follow my suggestion. Your call. If this is your interpretation of fact, however, then I must question and challenge your fact:
Quote
I don't remember where I read the 7% figure. It's probably lost in a swamp of bookmarked quotes ...
Either document it or retract it because you make an important assertion based on it. It is important and goes to your credibility, so go look for it. Justify yourself or remain silent, that is, not meaning to be rude but in the directness of the colloquial, put up or shut up.

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Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
Originally Posted by ajk
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
Originally Posted by ajk
What is going on? How about some more tangibles, like links. What exactly did Fr. Loya say and when did he say it?

Here's one. He calls it out as a FRAUD!!!

I hear him call it a "hoax" not a fraud. It would be better if he could (somehow) provide references for his numbers and statistics. The general reporting of the details of the numbers and statistics, and their interpretation, has been sloppy science. Maybe it's just being dumbed-down too much for the public. This, however, is fodder for hysterical and shallow reporting by a press and media that present sensationalism as truth. As a result, i don't know what to believe. So I appreciate Fr. Loya's frustration and would only offer to go a little easier on church leaders, bishops, (some) politicians etc. While they do blunder, their legitimate fear is that they are misrepresented, allow themselves to be misrepresented and stereotyped and shouted down. At the least, Fr. Loya here is asking good questions and adding a needed counterpoint in the discussion.


fraud frôd►

n. A deception practiced in order to induce another to give up possession of property or surrender a right.
n. A piece of trickery; a trick.

hoax hōks►

n. An act intended to deceive or trick.
n. Something that has been established or accepted by fraudulent means.
transitive verb
To deceive or cheat by using a hoax.

Maybe I missed the difference??
I don't know if you did but the point is what did Fr. Loya actually say. It's always proper to put someone's own words into his mouth. In that youtube I heard "hoax' not fraud, that's all I'm saying; if he said fraud in it let me know, I could have missed it.

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Originally Posted by Utroque
Originally Posted by ajk
What is going on? How about some more tangibles, like links. What exactly did Fr. Loya say and when did he say it?

Here's a pretty good one: [img]
[/img] He falls short of calling the pandemic a hoax, but he needs to be fact-checked on the Black Plague and some other assertions.
Good questions and points Fr. Thomas. This is a side of the debate we need to hear. And the hard science and good analysis, not just political soft science.

From the start I've wanted to see a comparison with previous flu seasons. The numbers I see do not support Fathers ranking, but that is something that should and can be verified.

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There is a huge story today on www.churchmilitant.com [churchmilitant.com] about THE CENSORSHIP OF FATHER TOM LOYA
SEE IT!

I believe what his Bishop doesn't like is Father Tom's criticism of ALL Catholic Bishops handling of the covid-19 democratic media mass hysteria that included
all Catholic Bishops cancelling EASTER along with depriving the Faithful of all 7 Sacraments of the Catholic Church for over 4 months.

What Father Tom has said is THE ABSOLUTE CATHOLIC TRUTH, All Catholic Bishops have betrayed Jesus Christ and We The Faithful for what they did
in cancelling all Easter Services and all 7 Sacraments.

All Catholic Bishops are continuing to BETRAY JESUS CHRIST by not saying a word about Catholic voting moral responsibility concerning Catholics who vote for pro choice/abortion candidates AS COMMITTING A MORTAL SIN!

By their continued silence, the USCCB including Bishop Milan are ENABLERS of continued abortion that murders millions of infants inside and even outside of their mothers wombs!

Bishop Milans censoring of True Catholic Priest Father Tom Loya is an insult to the True Catholic Church that Jesus Christ started by His death on the Cross
and the BLOOD SHED BY ALL MARTYRS!
The same goes for RC Father Altman for his speaking out!

Everything that Father Loya has said about the covid-19 FLU is 100% correct!
I am a health care worker for a major NYC Blood Bank and have been involved with the covid-19 MASS HYSTERIA since it began.

It is and was all about Nov 3 and defeating President Trump by any means necessary including lying, fraud and calumny.
Believe what you want but I know the Truth and so does Father Loya and Father Altman!
"The truth will set you free!" Jesus

SLAVA ISSU CHRISTU!


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jvf how do you respond to recent claims that the drug that Pres Trump was taking Regeneron is created from an embryonic cell line? Doesn't clearly go against specific Catholic teaching on the matter, not in a matter of politics or back to the States vs Federal etc. The President said he's against the use of this due to being prolife yet when push came to shove, he used it for himself

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Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
jvf how do you respond to recent claims that the drug that Pres Trump was taking Regeneron is created from an embryonic cell line? Doesn't clearly go against specific Catholic teaching on the matter, not in a matter of politics or back to the States vs Federal etc. The President said he's against the use of this due to being prolife yet when push came to shove, he used it for himself
Not jvt, but how far must one dig into a product or investment or medication to insure it is not ethically tainted, especially one with a possible remote evil but a present good? I don't know that is the case here. I do say, read headlines carefully, and that means dig for all the facts. It sounds here like the verdict is in: "created from an embryonic cell line." [emphasis added here and below to trace highlight the nuance]

For example, a CBS News Headline:
Quote
COVID drug Trump touted as a "cure" was developed using cells derived from aborted fetal tissue
link [cbsnews.com]

Therein, down a ways close to the end:
Quote
Anti-abortion groups, which generally oppose the use of fetal tissue in pharmaceutical research, did not raise issue with the therapeutics used and promoted by the president.

"The president was not given any medicines to treat COVID-19 that involved the destruction of human life," wrote David Prentice, Ph.D., and Tara Sander Lee, Ph.D., of the Charlotte Lozier Institute, the research arm of the anti-abortion rights political group the Susan B. Anthony List, in a statement emailed to CBS News Wednesday afternoon. "No human embryonic stem cells or human fetal tissue were used to produce the treatments President Trump received – period."

The researchers did not address the fact that fetal cells were used for testing earlier in the drug's development process. A spokesperson for the SBA List did not respond to follow up questions.

As of Wednesday afternoon, Lila Rose, the co-founder and president of Live Action, an anti-abortion group, rejected that the therapeutic was developed using fetal tissue, writing in an email to CBS News, "To our knowledge, Regeneron was not created using aborted baby tissue."

Rose acknowledged that other Regeneron products use fetal tissue in their development, which her group "absolutely condemn[s]." Rose did not respond to follow up questions.

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Here is my reality check.

COVID-19 is airborne.

That means, “in the air, everywhere”.

It is ENDEMIC.

We will ALL get exposed..over and over.
MANY of us will “test positive”, mostly without symptoms.
SOME of us will be “symptomatic”, and a subset will be really sick.
And (unfortunately) a FEW of us will die.

This is NOT the Bubonic plague.
This is NOT the Spanish Influenza.

Tear off that face diaper.
Breathe deeply.
Inhale some COVID...yes, it's good for you!


Build up your immune system.
And LIVE!

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Originally Posted by Thomas the Seeker
Here is my reality check.

COVID-19 is airborne.

That means, “in the air, everywhere”.

It is ENDEMIC.

We will ALL get exposed..over and over.
MANY of us will “test positive”, mostly without symptoms.
SOME of us will be “symptomatic”, and a subset will be really sick.
And (unfortunately) a FEW of us will die.

This is NOT the Bubonic plague.
This is NOT the Spanish Influenza.

Tear off that face diaper.
Breathe deeply.
Inhale some COVID...yes, it's good for you!


Build up your immune system.
And LIVE!
anyone here in immunology or infectious diseases? If not, our uneducated theories are equivalent to reading about Eastern Christianity online and claiming to be as great a theologian as St Ephrem - while also contradicting him.

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Originally Posted by ajk
Therein, down a ways close to the end:
Quote
Anti-abortion groups, which generally oppose the use of fetal tissue in pharmaceutical research, did not raise issue with the therapeutics used and promoted by the president.

"The president was not given any medicines to treat COVID-19 that involved the destruction of human life," wrote David Prentice, Ph.D., and Tara Sander Lee, Ph.D., of the Charlotte Lozier Institute, the research arm of the anti-abortion rights political group the Susan B. Anthony List, in a statement emailed to CBS News Wednesday afternoon. "No human embryonic stem cells or human fetal tissue were used to produce the treatments President Trump received – period."

The researchers did not address the fact that fetal cells were used for testing earlier in the drug's development process. A spokesperson for the SBA List did not respond to follow up questions.

As of Wednesday afternoon, Lila Rose, the co-founder and president of Live Action, an anti-abortion group, rejected that the therapeutic was developed using fetal tissue, writing in an email to CBS News, "To our knowledge, Regeneron was not created using aborted baby tissue."

Rose acknowledged that other Regeneron products use fetal tissue in their development, which her group "absolutely condemn[s]." Rose did not respond to follow up questions.
There using quite a nuance with their wording 'to our knowledge'.. "aborted baby tissue".. "embryonic STEM cells"..look I get that Trumps their preferred candidate but this is the kind of thing that riles me up. If Bidens a CINO terrible proabortion etc for supporting the typical Democrat position, one can't give a pass to the Republicans for using weasel words about not only the same but personally benefitting. No one claimed exactly what these people stated, the drug was tested on embryonic KIDNEY cells derived from fetal.

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My son is one of the Directors of Clinical Trials at PFIZER.

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My son is one of the Directors of Clinical Trials at PFIZER, he told me that there is no human stem cells involved.
Unless the drug companies are lying to us I would at this time believe them.

Just magine if we as Catholics took the covid19 vaccine believing that there was no human stem cells from aborted babies and tha later found out out that
we were lied too.
Imagine the law suits!
And that would mean that they also lied to the FDA because they have to tell the FDA how the drug was created and show all the clinical trials in order to get approved

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ABSOLUTELY THE TRUTH BROTHER!
AMERICA HAS BEEN LIED TO ALL ALONG!
THIS IS THE NOV 3 covid-19 FLU MASS HYSTERIA ALL ALONG.

MAGA 2020 NOV 3!
TO SAVE AMERICA AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH FROM THE POWERS OF DARKNESS aka satan!

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Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
Originally Posted by Thomas the Seeker
Here is my reality check.

COVID-19 is airborne.

That means, “in the air, everywhere”.

It is ENDEMIC.

We will ALL get exposed..over and over.
MANY of us will “test positive”, mostly without symptoms.
SOME of us will be “symptomatic”, and a subset will be really sick.
And (unfortunately) a FEW of us will die.

This is NOT the Bubonic plague.
This is NOT the Spanish Influenza.

Tear off that face diaper.
Breathe deeply.
Inhale some COVID...yes, it's good for you!


Build up your immune system.
And LIVE!
anyone here in immunology or infectious diseases? If not, our uneducated theories are equivalent to reading about Eastern Christianity online and claiming to be as great a theologian as St Ephrem - while also contradicting him.

Dear Michael -

In the beginning, I was, like many other people, very much concerned that a new virus, something created in a lab in China, could have serious consequences. I took this seriously and began to pay attention to what was going on. Because I was paying attention and reading everything I could get my hands on regarding this subject, it only took about a month for me to begin to smell dead fish. The "tipping point," so to speak, came when President Trump touted the drug, hydroxycloroquine, as a cure, and immediately the lying liberal media hacks and the Democrat Party hacks began to attack him and the drug like rabid dogs smelling fear. Further reading about hydroxycloroquine showed me that it has been used for 70 years against malaria and the FDA has approved it for over 40 years. My BS detector went from 0 to 100%. Game on.

Michael, you don't need to be an epidemiologist to understand when you are being lied to. You just need to understand who the players are in the game and what the goal is. When you know that the Democrat Party has spent three years and millions of dollars trying to destroy our president, and then you see them turn around and use this illness to try to continue the distruction...well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what is going on. It also doesn't take a genius to see which doctors are towing the Democrat Party line because they get fat paychecks or honorariums they don't wish to lose. Democrat governors even issued edits threatening loss of licensure for doctors who dared to prescribed hydroxycloroquine. That alone should have had people rioting in the streets!! The true doctors, those who practice holistic medicine rather than pushing drugs for BIg Pharma, have nothing to lose and are more concerned with our health than they are with kissing up to politicians. There are dozens of articles out there which give the cures for this virus....yet the media is mute as fish.

The facts are overwhelming that this is one of the most bogus scams ever run on the American people. P.T. Barnum was right.

PS. The following is not fact, it is just a personal opinion I have. Please take it as such.

When President Trump sat in the Oval Office to begin business, Chairman Xi of China came in town to play the game called "USA Trade with China" He smiled, set up the board, and said to Trump "You move first," whereupon our president, who loves this country and is sickened by the toadies, sellouts, and rats who have sold us down the river, swept all the pieces off the board, looked Xi in the eyes and said "New game, pal. We're not playing "Screw America Trade Wars" anymore"

The way that Trump has dealt with China has caused XI to lose face, and if you know anything about that culture, you cause a man to lose face and you just made an enemy for life. I can easily imagine secret phone calls at night to Democrat Party leaders from Xi.

Xi: "Hello, Nancy?
N. Pelosi: "Yes, dear?"
Xi: "You hate Trump, right? He steal election from wonderful Hilary."
N. Pelosi: "Hate is putting it mildly."
Xi" "Me hate Trump. I have plan. We turn loose virus. Kill many Americans. You blame Trump. Get impeached for being moron."
N. Pelosi: "Ooooooh.....tell me more!"

And the conversation went on deep into the night.

Like I said.....just my silly opinion, but there's a part of me that wouldn't put it past these rotten scum.

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Don't you think that this whole perspective is quite bizarre and encourages conspiratorial thinking? It also puts our mutual faith into question, from those who see the person of faith touting a QanonLike interpretation of events from the mouths of Christians. Clearly the much touted hydroxy by Trump was utter nonsense as a cure, since he himself didn't not use it when diagnosed. And if he did use it prior, didn't prevent his illness.

The rest is simply silly stuff, you think India, China, Brazil and Israel would go along with a Democrat plot against Trump?

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