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[/quote]Who is this friend? Where specifically is the friend's and the friend's former student's location?[/quote]

Who are you? Where specifically is your location?

She lives in the same city as I do. She was my wife’s Lamaze instructor. One of my son’s is employed by her. I did make an error. While she is a nurse her doctorate is in education.

Last edited by Fr. Deacon Lance; 12/04/20 07:02 PM.

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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by ajk
Who is this friend? Where specifically is the friend's and the friend's former student's location?

Who are you? Where specifically is your location?

She lives in the same city as I do. She was my wife’s Lamaze instructor. One of my son’s is employed by her. I did make an error. While she is a nurse her doctorate is in education.


I presume I am hardly an unknown to you and the forum; anyone logged-in can click my id ajk and go to my profile. (Can you honestly say you don't know who I am?) AND, I am not making a statement and providing a first-hand account. Signing, providing a name, adds force and credibility, and a location gives context. And, in that context, you have not answered the questions.

So what I'm saying is that there is a lot of anecdotal evidence and a lot of bluster about, per the thread, Covid-19 and Trump, so much so that I consider it essential to verify -- hence, the questions.


Deacon Anthony

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It is appalling to watch the terror people have constructed for themselves over a virus that kills about the same percentage of people as the flu every year. BTW - the flu and pneumonia deaths are so low this year as to be hardly in the death charts of the CDC? Coincidence? Or was it greedy hospital administrators listing flu and pneumonia deaths as Covid deaths so the could get the $37,000 being paid for treating Covid patients as opposed to the meage $7,000 for a regular death, eh? If you don't think so, you don't know the human heart very well.

And if you pooh-pooh conspiracy theories, you also have no historical understanding of mankind, starting from the Fall. Since sin entered the human heart, men have lusted for power over others. We see this in the long line of brutal tyrants and dictators who have graced the pages of history. Now, with electronic media dishing out worldwide information, the availability of bending the minds of men and women to obey has never been easier. If you don't think there are still groups of uber-powerful men who are just lusting for a one world government, you are deluding yourself, even if you are a deacon in the church.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/...1125&mid=DM729339&rid=1019721756


I am beyond stunned when a man who is a former Pfizer officer comes out and reveals what a scam this whole thing is and people like you, Fr. Deacon Lance, just blow it off and tell us that he is a "Conspiracy Nut." Kind of like the same thing the liberals are saying about the long line of people who are testifying under oath to the vast corruption they saw on election night. They are threatened, called names, and smeared in the press. Yet your Trump hatred, for whatever reason you hold to it, has absolutely blinded you like a Calvinist reading the Early Fathers.

Has anyone told your friend in the hospital that despite all the hand-wringing, the death rate has not increased one iota over last year???

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/j...hows-covid-hasnt-increased-us-death-rate

I guess this person is a nut too, eh?

As a follower of Christ, we are supposed to follow truth. Participation in a lie is participation in that sin of lying, and I for one am not going to do it. You can call me all the names you wish, I've done my homework (which you obviously either have not done or choose to believe the liars because they all hate Trump) and I will not be moved from calling out these lies on the public forums I participate in.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/health/flu-deaths-2017--2018-cdc-bn/index.html


80,000 people died from the flu alone in the 2017-18 flu season. Where was the outrage and panic over this? It wasn't there because it wasn't able to be used to try to take down our president.

God forgive you, Fr. Deacon Lance, for promoting this lie that has destroyed lives, closed businesses permanently, wrecked the economy, put people out of work, and increased the alcoholism and suicide rate.

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[quote=Irish_Ruthenian] And if you pooh-pooh conspiracy theories, you also have no historical understanding of mankind, starting from the Fall. Since sin entered the human heart, men have lusted for power over others. We see this in the long line of brutal tyrants and dictators who have graced the pages of history. Now, with electronic media dishing out worldwide information, the availability of bending the minds of men and women to obey has never been easier. If you don't think there are still groups of uber-powerful men who are just lusting for a one world government, you are deluding yourself, even if you are a deacon in the church. [quote]

And the earth is flat. You know it and I know it. It's curvature is an illusion. And that's the TRUTH. Just another one of those "alternative facts".

Last edited by Utroque; 12/05/20 12:30 AM.
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Originally Posted by Utroque
[quote=Irish_Ruthenian] And if you pooh-pooh conspiracy theories, you also have no historical understanding of mankind, starting from the Fall. Since sin entered the human heart, men have lusted for power over others. We see this in the long line of brutal tyrants and dictators who have graced the pages of history. Now, with electronic media dishing out worldwide information, the availability of bending the minds of men and women to obey has never been easier. If you don't think there are still groups of uber-powerful men who are just lusting for a one world government, you are deluding yourself, even if you are a deacon in the church./quote]

And the earth is flat. You know it and I know it. It's curvature is an illusion. And that's the TRUTH. Just another one of those "alternative facts".

May God forgive you. And may He forgive me for what my first thought was when I read your post.

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I am beginning to regret having started this discussion in the first place.

It was supposed to be about parish practices and whether they engender faith or foment the fear which of late seems to be the more serious epidemic.

Last edited by Thomas the Seeker; 12/05/20 01:07 AM.
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I am basically optimistic, and have the confidence that, once vaccines are administered widely and this pandemic runs its course, people of faith will emerge and reengage with zeal. In the meantime my own little Ukrainian Catholic parish has carried on with Divine Liturgy on Sunday and feast days, albeit, intrepidly with the state imposed sensible restrictions, but devotedly, knowing that we're there for those who, for one reason or another, cannot come. My only disappointment is that the Eucharist is given to the faithful using only the species of bread. I would prefer the local Greek Orthodox practice of using individual spoons which are then purified and sanitized.

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I'm surprised about the folks with serious untreated mental illness running around Catholic and Orthodox parishes, I expected it in evangelical and Pentecostal circles, with their gnostic theology, occult practices and oracle mindset; but certain unique aspects of American Christianity has infected our Churches.

I'm worried for the future of our Churches.

Educated people will not tolerate these wild conspiracy theories and absurd claims.

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Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
Educated people will not tolerate these wild conspiracy theories and absurd claims.

I suspect this is why many of the fine, articulate and clear voices that used to grace this forum have gone silent, but that's another issue that was raised in another "Town Hall" thread some time ago.

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Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
I'm surprised about the folks with serious untreated mental illness running around Catholic and Orthodox parishes, I expected it in evangelical and Pentecostal circles, with their gnostic theology, occult practices and oracle mindset; but certain unique aspects of American Christianity has infected our Churches.

I'm worried for the future of our Churches.

Educated people will not tolerate these wild conspiracy theories and absurd claims.

Have you actually read any of these "wild claims" or do you just take a position and then defend it at all costs?

Tell you what - instead of shooting your mouth off and making ad hominum attacks, why don't you write a paper and publish it to refute the claims made in this article?


https://articles.mercola.com/sites/..._HL2&mid=DM738572&rid=1027521113

And when I say respond, I mean give us YOUR scientific knowledge of reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction testing. Tell us everything you know in a paper so that we can go back to these doctors and scientists and tell them that Michael Thoma says that they are frauds, nuts, and we have the paper from him to prove it.

If you can't do that, then you would be advised to keep your insults to yourself.

I look forward to your response - Doctor Thoma

Last edited by Irish_Ruthenian; 12/05/20 04:28 PM.
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I feel sorry for the mental state you are in. A couple quack doctors and a quack lawyer on some homebrew bogus website does not equal expertise. Anyone can file a lawsuit on anything, 49 dismissed lawsuits on the election conspiracy theory is the latest proof of that.

I don't claim expertise. Unfortunately the authors of the sites, papers, articles and claims that you and some others here keep posting have even less competence than I do on the subject - but they claim to be the only ones who know everything about every detail on the matter. Working for a bloodbank and making fake websites are not competencies.

Lord have mercy.

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Originally Posted by Thomas the Seeker
I am beginning to regret having started this discussion in the first place.

It was supposed to be about parish practices and whether they engender faith or foment the fear which of late seems to be the more serious epidemic.

Regret not, the spirit blows where it will and forums are especially susceptible to strong gusts. And the topic, Prudent or paranoid?, is well represented.

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Christ is in our midst!!

Tom,

It was a good question to begin with and remains one. Many of my fellow parishioners are still afraid to return to Liturgy. I also have had telephone conversations with friends who have still not left their homes since March because of their health issues. So, I would venture that it is still an open discussion. I continue to wonder about the back and forth from government agencies and medical experts who can't seem to come up with a consistent set of guidelines or edicts for us.

Bob

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Originally Posted by theophan
Christ is in our midst!!

Tom,

It was a good question to begin with and remains one. Many of my fellow parishioners are still afraid to return to Liturgy. I also have had telephone conversations with friends who have still not left their homes since March because of their health issues. So, I would venture that it is still an open discussion. I continue to wonder about the back and forth from government agencies and medical experts who can't seem to come up with a consistent set of guidelines or edicts for us.

Bob

Answer to question: It is fostering FEAR. A virus with a 99% survival rate is nothing to be afraid of. What we should be afraid of is a deeply corrupt government with toadies who do their will be parroting false information to the masses. If you have parisioners who are afraid to leave their houses or return to Liturgy, the government and lying media have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams in controlling us. The next step is to make the pharamceutical companies rich beyond anything they could imagine by mandating a vaccine that is not needed for a virus with a 99% survival rate.

It is disheartening and sad to see the response of people like Michael Thoma who, when confronted with scientists and doctors who present long papers filled with medical and scientific facts, turn around and insult their intelligence. My challenge remains open, Mr. Thoma. Refute what was given to you with a paper of your own, amply footnoted with scientific information and quotes from scientists and doctors. It is noted that you didn't even address what was posted, probably because you realized you were immediately out of your league.

In addition, what does this say about our supposed belief in eternal life in the next life if we cower in fear in this life? How do the unbelievers and pagans in the world think that we are any different than they are in their unbelief when we act this way? By death Christ has conquered death, but you wouldn't know it to observe the majority of Christians in response to this virus. The martyrs in heaven, who went ahead and worshiped Christ to the taking of their lives, must be shaking their heads in dismay.

Last edited by Irish_Ruthenian; 12/05/20 08:27 PM.
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