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Friends,
Just to clarify:
My point about crumbling at the Fraction is my own conjecture, no priest has ever stated this to me. But from resistance to reintroducing the sponge and it really not taking that much more time, I feel this the real unspoken reason many do not want to do cut the Lamb at the Fraction, although convenience is also probably a factor.
Subdeacon Randolph,
The Fraction does occur as there is a Lamb, it is simply broken into four particles and not further subdivided.
In Christ,
Subdeacon Lance
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Friends,
While it is impossible for me or anyone else to really know what the true reason behind the use of pre-cut particles is and no one who practices this is coming forward to defend its practice, I would like to ask a question.
What confuses me about this crumb issue is that if these priests were so worried about crumbs that worry is not transferred to the concern for drops of the Precious Blood. If they were concerned about the crumbs of the Holy Body being mistreated then they might have retained/restored/implemeted the use of the communion cloth (present in all other usages AFAIK and referred to in Mikita for whatever that is worth).
Most Ruthenian priests distribute with the spoon from the chalice and do not have the cloth held nor do most people take it. Granted in few places that happens but it is not the norm by any means nor is it the norm in Europe. Is the Holy Body different that the Precious Blood? It seems crumbs would be easier to collect than clean up liquid....especially when we are talking about the Consecrated Species. Why the apparent concern for the Body and not the Blood?
Tony
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Tony, this is my impression but the lack of altar servers in many parishes as well as the predominance of daily "low liturgies" precipitated the use of a smaller cloth because the priest had to manipulate the cloth and chalice. In some Greek Catholic parishes with two or more servers, the larger cloths are back in use.
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Tony, Here is a picture of what I am most familiar with, from a Ukrainian (not Ruthenian) liturgy. http://montrealukrainian.freeyellow.com/UPAMonument50th/new_page_1.htm (Alex, is this site OK?) The cloth is wrapped over the disk. Both are placed beneath the chin of hte communicant. There's pretty thourough coverage here. I have not seen people taking the cloth; my upbringing was that the vessels, implements, cloth, etc. that come in contact with the Holy Mysteries are touched, generally, only by those ordained. It seems crumbs would be easier to collect than clean up liquid.... Hmmm. Apparently you don't have a great deal of experience in cleaning. 
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Tony,
In my own parish my priest holds the discos along with the chalice and I have seen other priests do this as well, although the lention alone is becoming common.
In Christ,
Subdeacon Lance
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Originally posted by djs: Tony,
Here is a picture of what I am most familiar with, from a Ukrainian (not Ruthenian) liturgy.
http://montrealukrainian.freeyellow.com/UPAMonument50th/new_page_1.htm
(Alex, is this site OK?)
The cloth is wrapped over the disk. Both are placed beneath the chin of hte communicant. There's pretty thourough coverage here.
I have not seen people taking the cloth; my upbringing was that the vessels, implements, cloth, etc. that come in contact with the Holy Mysteries are touched, generally, only by those ordained.
It seems crumbs would be easier to collect than clean up liquid.... If this is practiced that is better than nothing which I still from my experience believe is most frequent. As regards cleaning, I think anyone knows that is you spill liquid on a cloth (carpet, etc) it will be absorbed while crumbs remain more intact and retreivable. Crumble a cracker on a carpeted floor then on the other side of the room pour out some red wine and come back and tell if these were the Consecrated Species which one cleans up better. Could this have any thing to do with the use of white wine and white cloths? Tony
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Originally posted by Lance:
Tony,
In my own parish my priest holds the discos along with the chalice and I have seen other priests do this as well, although the lention alone is becoming common.
In Christ,
Subdeacon Lance Dear Lance, Yes I too have seen that...not as frequently as the hanging or sort of folded cloth though. Usually either the cloth just hangs or there is nothing, I have heard some priests don't want the cloth tugged for fear of spillage that certainly makes sense but it would be a lesser issue with a bigger cloth and a non-issue if the cloth were held by others. Some use the diskos, again, that is of course better than nothing and serves the sole purpose of all of this which it to contain any accidental spillage. I don't doubt priests are careful and pious in their distribution of the Holy Gifts, but I still think there is a disconnenct if the crumbs issue is really an issue. Don't forget Lance...I attended your parish for...2 academic years! Tony
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