The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Lillian, ROCOR man, comehavebreakfast, EasternAquinas2, JasJac
5,876 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 114 guests, and 21 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,217
Posts415,272
Members5,876
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
Basically, my assumption is that, at least in the US (and probably some other Western countries), the growth of Byzantine Catholicism is largely, if not predominantly, dependent upon Latin Catholics formally changing Churches to become Byzantine Catholics. There just doesn't seem to be enough natural growth of cradle Byzantines to ensure a guaranteed future in the coming decades.

It seems that a pariah's attendance and contributions can be bolstered by Latin Catholics who are parishioners but never actually change Churches, but at some point the numbers of canonical BCs need to justify continued support of Eparchies and parishes.

Does this seem like a fair assumption? Or am I way off here?

Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 42
Likes: 4
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 42
Likes: 4
I think a lot of the growth in Byzantine Catholic churches is probably based on converts. Most EOC I know are converts from Protestantism. At least a few of the Eastern Catholic priests I know were actually ordained Eastern Orthodox, and they came from Protestant backgrounds (Methodist, Episcopalian, Baptist) For me, I'd say there's some truth to what you say, BUT, I do not think it's the whole story.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 628
Likes: 9
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 628
Likes: 9
Why is the assumption that only Latins or Cradle Greek Catholics would be the only two options for the future of our Churches? There are converts from Protestantism as well as the unbaptized who enter our Churches. If our Churches are to survive, thrive and grow, it is really increase in these last two groups that will insure this.

1 member likes this: Adamcsc
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
Well to be fair to myself, I didn't exclude those groups you mentioned - I asked if the BC Churches were *predominantly* dependent on Latin Catholics for sustenance and growth. And I did ask whether I was way off in my thinking, just for good measure.

But does the reality on the ground in your own parish reflect what you've said? Do you have a lot of converts from Protestantism (for which, as I understand it, are supposed to be received received into the Latin Church if they convert) or converts right off the street? How many of these types of folks make up the average BC parish? I'd guess a pretty small number.

In contrast, my guess is that if all currently canonical Latins who belong to or frequently attend a Byzantine Liturgy on Sundays were counted, it would be a significant percent.

Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 42
Likes: 4
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 42
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by LionHippo44
Well to be fair to myself, I didn't exclude those groups you mentioned - I asked if the BC Churches were *predominantly* dependent on Latin Catholics for sustenance and growth. And I did ask whether I was way off in my thinking, just for good measure.

But does the reality on the ground in your own parish reflect what you've said? Do you have a lot of converts from Protestantism (for which, as I understand it, are supposed to be received received into the Latin Church if they convert) or converts right off the street? How many of these types of folks make up the average BC parish? I'd guess a pretty small number.

In contrast, my guess is that if all currently canonical Latins who belong to or frequently attend a Byzantine Liturgy on Sundays were counted, it would be a significant percent.
I'm not sure how true it is that Protestants that convert are to be counted as Latins. They seems rather strange to me if they specifically ask to become members of an Eastern Catholic church. I'm not an expert in this area (being a Latin and all), but I don't think that's quite right.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 628
Likes: 9
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 628
Likes: 9
My community is different than the normal BC parish. First, we are a mission (technically an Outreach). We have 30 regular Divine Liturgy attendees plus another 15 or 16 who come a couple of times a year (because of the distance involved and finances). So just looking at the 30 regulars:

18 are under age 18 (one is a convert from Protestantism that came in with his mom, the rest cradles)
2 are cradle BCs (my two oldest children)
1 is a Latin
1 is Hindu
1 is Methodist
2 were RCs who changed Churches
5 converted from Protestantism

There are Cradle GCs in the area that are ethnically tied to one or another Eastern Church, but they do not come (and the ones I know of do know about us).

So, if the 12 adults, 16% are cradles, 16% trans-churchees, 25% are not officially affiliated with an ECC, of which 1 is a Latin, 42% are converts. It is a small sample, but that is the reality on the ground of my community. It is similar throughout the Midwest, except the ethnic cradles show, and generally make up about 1/3rd to 1/2 of the make up from what I have seen. No matter how you cut it, except in a couple of extraordinary cases (one in Illinois I can think of) Latin refugees certainly do not make up the bulk of our attendees and are not really a viable or even desirable option for our future (based on past experience, the commitment to us is not there-once there is a EF mass, they bolt).

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
Those are interesting statistics, thanks. Most of my interactions on other forums have been with Latin to Byzantine transfers.


Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2022 (Forum 1998-2022). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5